I agree, this is an established aspect of patching in Pd and changing it is not likely possible at this point. A positive reinforcement for using trigger is that it's simply more readable. I also admit to using fanning when I know order isn't as important for that case,
I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order differences, ie. on canvas placement versus creation order. Forgive me if this info is in our documentation, I admit to not having gone through it since circa 2006 when I first started with Pd.
On Feb 10, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
Message: 3 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:30:36 +0100 From: Roman Haefeli <reduzent@gmail.com mailto:reduzent@gmail.com> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile] Message-ID: <32c6cc64713fab78eae64728309bb95975471116.camel@gmail.com mailto:32c6cc64713fab78eae64728309bb95975471116.camel@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Thu, 2022-02-10 at 10:09 +0100, Max wrote:
Should Pd warn the user when one outlet is connected to multiple objects?
I'd rather want Pd not to do that.
There are too many cases where fanning outlet connections are OK.
I believe it's more valuable if people do not fanning connections
because they understand their implications rather than because a message tells them to avoid them.
- I'm personally not so fond of the idea of giving people patching
advice.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
On 2/10/22 12:53, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order differences,
hmm. i'd prefer a "tip-of-the-day". order of execution is important enough that everybody should be aware of it, whether they come from max, vvvv, csound or out of the blue.
i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from scratch anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section in the documentation, whereas the max users would just dive into it (as Pd has been sold to them as something you can use your Max-skills with without having to pay the license).
my argument is that people who find tips-of-the-day useful are not power users yet and as such an occasional reminder won't hurt.
gfdmas IOhannes
+1 on this I still find things out re Pd that elicit a facepalm/no-way(you can do _that_) moment. Think we all get stuck in our ways too so little tips/snippets/patterns (or known anti-patterns) would be lovely.
All best, J
On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 12:37, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
On 2/10/22 12:53, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out
after being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order differences,
hmm. i'd prefer a "tip-of-the-day". order of execution is important enough that everybody should be aware of it, whether they come from max, vvvv, csound or out of the blue.
i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from scratch anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section in the documentation, whereas the max users would just dive into it (as Pd has been sold to them as something you can use your Max-skills with without having to pay the license).
my argument is that people who find tips-of-the-day useful are not power users yet and as such an occasional reminder won't hurt.
gfdmas IOhannes
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
+1 I also think it would be nice to encourage users to submit their own tips to this list as in: “click here to submit your tip of the day”.
fdch.github.io
On Feb 10, 2022, at 2:50 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
+1 on this I still find things out re Pd that elicit a facepalm/no-way(you can do _that_) moment. Think we all get stuck in our ways too so little tips/snippets/patterns (or known anti-patterns) would be lovely.
All best, J
On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 12:37, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote: On 2/10/22 12:53, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order differences,
hmm. i'd prefer a "tip-of-the-day". order of execution is important enough that everybody should be aware of it, whether they come from max, vvvv, csound or out of the blue.
i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from scratch anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section in the documentation, whereas the max users would just dive into it (as Pd has been sold to them as something you can use your Max-skills with without having to pay the license).
my argument is that people who find tips-of-the-day useful are not power users yet and as such an occasional reminder won't hurt.
gfdmas IOhannes
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
- IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at [2022-02-10 13:36]:
On 2/10/22 12:53, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order differences,
hmm. i'd prefer a "tip-of-the-day". order of execution is important enough that everybody should be aware of it, whether they come from max, vvvv, csound or out of the blue.
i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from scratch anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section in the documentation,
Just out of curiosity, are you referring to 2.3.2. depth first message passing in http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x2.htm#s3 ?
Or is there another text about this?
cheersz, P
On 2/10/22 23:12, Peter P. wrote:
- IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at [2022-02-10 13:36]:
i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from scratch anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section in the documentation,
Just out of curiosity, are you referring to 2.3.2. depth first message passing in http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x2.htm#s3 ?
no idea, i haven't read the documentation in a long time I-)
Or is there another text about this?
i was pretty sure there was something in the examples, and indeed 2.control.examples/03.connections.pd is what i meant.
gfmy< IOhannes
On Fri, 2022-02-11 at 00:03 +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
On 2/10/22 23:12, Peter P. wrote:
- IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at [2022-02-10 13:36]:
i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from scratch anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section in the documentation,
Just out of curiosity, are you referring to 2.3.2. depth first message passing in http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x2.htm#s3 ?
no idea, i haven't read the documentation in a long time I-)
2.3.3 specifically covers fan-out connections.
Roman
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Dan Wilcox -
Fede Camara Halac -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
IOhannes m zmölnig
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Julian Brooks -
Peter P. -
Roman Haefeli