I like the curvy ones better :)
m.
-----Original Message----- From: pd-list-admin@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-admin@iem.at] On Behalf Of Mathieu Bouchard Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 2:30 PM To: Malte Steiner Cc: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at Subject: Re: [PD] pd+makeup
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Malte Steiner wrote:
http://artengine.ca/gridflow/gallery/pd_console_4.gif http://artengine.ca/gridflow/gallery/cellular_1d_themed.gif
makeup is good but I vote for it only when it improves usability.
What
really is needed are segmented cords to render patches more
readible.
I dont like the direct lines and soon end up to put all in
subpatches
and subpatches.
Oh, but they _are_ segmented now. I hope you'll have enough indirect
lines
with this to be fully satisfied. Witness by yourself at:
http://artengine.ca/gridflow/gallery/segmented.gif
Mathieu Bouchard http://artengine.ca/matju
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Matthew Allen wrote:
I like the curvy ones better :)
oh yeah?
http://artengine.ca/gridflow/gallery/segmented2.gif
http://artengine.ca/gridflow/gallery/segmented3.gif
be careful what you wish for ;-)
Mathieu Bouchard http://artengine.ca/matju
I might be alone in this..
but i think that segmented patch cords just lead to sloppy patches... it makes them harder to read and much more convoluted..
also (standard rant starting here)... there are more important things yet to fix in pd before i'd consider these aesthetic issues become important. the audio performance/dropouts and latency (especially on os x) are making pd almost unusable as a performance tool for audio/dsp performances.
/* Matt Nish-Lapidus
www.ekran.org/mn-l matt@ekran.org // mattn-l@rogers.com
"What's this fish doing in my ear?" */
On 17-Feb-04, at 8:16 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Matthew Allen wrote:
I like the curvy ones better :)
oh yeah?
http://artengine.ca/gridflow/gallery/segmented2.gif http://artengine.ca/gridflow/gallery/segmented3.gif
be careful what you wish for ;-)
Mathieu Bouchard http://artengine.ca/matju
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Matthew Nish-Lapidus wrote:
I might be alone in this.. but i think that segmented patch cords just lead to sloppy patches... it makes them harder to read and much more convoluted..
Sigh. It's déjà vu all over again!!!
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:30:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@sympatico.ca To: ben@ekran.org Cc: ivan.franco@ydreams.com, pd-list@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] 0.37 must 'Cut' cables?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 ben@ekran.org wrote:
But I suppose the lesson is patches will never be hard to follow (either way) if they are well constructed! PD patches that are well constructed look good, segmented patch cords make bad patches look good...
You'd have a problem with my patches maybe? My work is essentially based on recursion, so in almost every patch I have a wire that goes on top on an object box, and doesn't have the possibility not to. That's not beautiful. (Oh yeah, I could use "send" and "receive", but it makes the diagram heavier.)
If you agree that having cords run over objects is ugly, could you tell me what I'm supposed to do to beautify patches that use recursion?
Also, I don't recall any other arguments against segmented patch cords than things along the lines of "if your patches didn't suck you wouldn't care for that feature". So I'm not sure what I am supposed to tell beginners about it without sounding bad. Are there any other arguments against?
Mathieu Bouchard http://artengine.ca/matju
Hi all,
I think that segmented cords, buttons and other gui enhancements have their place. Others will work on improving other parts of pd but that should not mean stopping creative work when it happens? Of course, the changes should be optional so everyone can have it their own way.
When I was migrating from jMax to pd, I found myself at a bit of a loss a first when confronted to the stark look of puredata. I now appreciate its simplicity and I am learning to encapsulate and clean up my patches. From my experience in both, I can attest that that bad patch design is quite independent from the look of the GUI ;-).
For new users that do not mastered the shortcuts, and want a taste of what puredata is like, having something more visual like the button bar would be welcome. Curved or segmented patch cords can also help the readability of a patch when it is inevitable to have lines crossing objects.
I'd really like to see these changes happen, otherwise what would we do with these news icons we're working on?
Cheers,
Alexandre
On Tuesday 17 February 2004 20:40, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Matthew Nish-Lapidus wrote:
I might be alone in this.. but i think that segmented patch cords just lead to sloppy patches... it makes them harder to read and much more convoluted..
Sigh. It's déjà vu all over again!!!
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:30:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@sympatico.ca To: ben@ekran.org Cc: ivan.franco@ydreams.com, pd-list@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] 0.37 must 'Cut' cables?
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 ben@ekran.org wrote:
But I suppose the lesson is patches will never be hard to follow (either way) if they are well constructed! PD patches that are well constructed look good, segmented patch cords make bad patches look good...
You'd have a problem with my patches maybe? My work is essentially based on recursion, so in almost every patch I have a wire that goes on top on an object box, and doesn't have the possibility not to. That's not beautiful. (Oh yeah, I could use "send" and "receive", but it makes the diagram heavier.)
If you agree that having cords run over objects is ugly, could you tell me what I'm supposed to do to beautify patches that use recursion?
Also, I don't recall any other arguments against segmented patch cords than things along the lines of "if your patches didn't suck you wouldn't care for that feature". So I'm not sure what I am supposed to tell beginners about it without sounding bad. Are there any other arguments against?
Mathieu Bouchard http://artengine.ca/matju
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
Alexandre Castonguay wrote:
Curved or segmented patch cords can also help the readability of a patch when it is inevitable to have lines crossing objects.
Maybe if the patch cords were uniquely coloured and also passed behind objects (or became slightly transparent) it would be better.
Martin
Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Are there any other arguments against?
Not against. A "desegmenter" whould be a nice feature to decrypt patches with lots of segmented patch cords that are difficult to follow (for example: a dozen of cords all tied together to simulate the look of a data bus). -- Marc
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Matthew Nish-Lapidus wrote:
I might be alone in this..
You are not alone. Thats why this "eye - catchy" - (no offense, actually I think it would be great if all of these great ideas could be included, but it is more a organisational issue) - improvements are not made.
pd has issues everywhere, especially regarding sound hardware. thats the price you have to pay when being cross platform.
on linux alsa is hard to program, jack is constantly changing binary compatibility, portaudio doesn't support different input/output channels, problems with blocksizes and usb devices, dozens of API's and and and ...
there are so many option that it is easy to miss the "right one". Finally I think that pd is perfectly usable on most OSX installations, it just depends if you get it right. My experience from workshops is that it doesn't work everywhere. Even OSX has its version issues ..
Guenter
but i think that segmented patch cords just lead to sloppy patches... it makes them harder to read and much more convoluted..
also (standard rant starting here)... there are more important things yet to fix in pd before i'd consider these aesthetic issues become important. the audio performance/dropouts and latency (especially on os x) are making pd almost unusable as a performance tool for audio/dsp performances.
/* Matt Nish-Lapidus
www.ekran.org/mn-l matt@ekran.org // mattn-l@rogers.com
"What's this fish doing in my ear?" */
On 17-Feb-04, at 8:16 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Matthew Allen wrote:
I like the curvy ones better :)
oh yeah?
http://artengine.ca/gridflow/gallery/segmented2.gif http://artengine.ca/gridflow/gallery/segmented3.gif
be careful what you wish for ;-)
Mathieu Bouchard http://artengine.ca/matju
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
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Alexandre Castonguay -
guenter geiger -
Marc Lavallée -
Martin Peach -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Matthew Allen -
Matthew Nish-Lapidus