Sure, no problem.

.mmb


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com> wrote:
cool, could you readapt the patch then? I'd appreciate that a lot as I'm just not being able to nail it. It'd be really careful. Thanks


2013/10/6 Mike Moser-Booth <mmoserbooth@gmail.com>
Yeah, I tend to use them for feedback loops because they only need to be the block size. Though now that I think about it, you don't need them in this case. You can just feed [vd~] in to [delwrite~] without that silly order forcing I did.

.mmb


On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com> wrote:
awesome, thanks a lot, really helpful. I was suspecting something like that, but couldn't get to this implementation. 

And then, one question, doesn't the feedback given by tabsend theoretically count as a second delay line?

cheers


2013/10/6 Mike Moser-Booth <mmoserbooth@gmail.com>
It's not that either implementation is wrong, they are just two ways of doing the same thing. The version that uses two delay lines is the Direct Form I. By doing some rearranging of the filter, you convert it to the Direct Form II, which only uses one delay line. The end results are the same, just one is more efficient.

Look inside [pd allpass] in the attached patch for an ASCII art illustration of it.


On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com> wrote:
on curtis roads' computer music tutorial, page 418, it shows the same formula, but the figure of the design seems to contradict it. I'm confused. I don't seem to get the same result with one delay line. maybe if you send me a patch that sounds the same as cyclone's allpass I can check it.

cheers


2013/10/5 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com>
i dont think there is one way or proper way of doing this, and it is a general form, from an equation you can find in other references. So, I don't know why, but Max/Cyclone's allpass use this one: y(n) = -g x(n) + x(n)-(DR/1000) + g y(n)-(DR/1000) 


2013/10/5 Chris Clepper <cgclepper@gmail.com>
That means cyclone's allpass~ is not done properly.  Why not do it the standard and more efficient way?  When it comes time to do dozens of allpasses it will make a difference.




On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com> wrote:
but this way it won't be the same as cyclone's [allpass~], the way I did it is equivalent to it (and max's).

cheers


2013/10/3 Chris Clepper <cgclepper@gmail.com>
You only need one delay line for the allpass.

feedforward = input * -gain
feedback = delayout * gain
delayin = input + feedback
output = delayout + feedforward



On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com> wrote:
i hope i guess i figured it out on how to implement it with delay lines. see attachment. And I realize you can't do this with [fexpr~] or [biquad~] because the sample delay length is kinda big for that, right?

cheers


2013/10/3 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com>
cool, but do you know how to implement cyclone's [allpass~] with it? 

It's really unclear to me what is the relation of this pass filter with the one you can generate with biquad coefficients, or with raw poles/zeros objects for that matter.

Well, one way or another, it's also unclear to me how to do it with delay lines.

seems that it is related to a comb filter, right?

cheers


2013/10/2 Chris Clepper <cgclepper@gmail.com>
Allpass for reverb is easy to do with delwrite~ and vd~.  I used 32 of them today to recreate a famous 'deep space' reverb.


On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:53 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com> wrote:
hi there, i see the biquad's coefficients can be set as an allpass filter, generated by frequency and "Q" parameters. But can it do the same as cyclone's [allpass~] filer? If yes, them how since the parameters for [allpass~] are different (delaytime and such).

One way or another, I guess that my real question is: how to implement [allpass~] from vanilla objects?

thanks

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