Re: [PD] Preset management for Pd Vanilla

-- Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Director, Creativity + Innovation Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology Virginia Tech Creative Technologies in Music School of Performing Arts – 0141 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-6139 ico@vt.edu ci.icat.vt.edu l2ork.icat.vt.edu ico.bukvic.net On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:52 AM Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu wrote: > Interesting. Will investigate. Thanks. > > Best, > > Ico > > -- > Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. > Director, Creativity + Innovation > Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology > > Virginia Tech > Creative Technologies in Music > School of Performing Arts – 0141 > Blacksburg, VA 24061 > (540) 231-6139 > ico@vt.edu > > ci.icat.vt.edu > l2ork.icat.vt.edu > ico.bukvic.net > > On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 08:32 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com > wrote: > >> this [image: Screen Shot 2023-11-12 at 10.31.08.png] >> >> Em dom., 12 de nov. de 2023 às 09:40, Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu escreveu: >> >>> So, what happens when you get to run Pd-L2Ork on 10.14? >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Ico >>> >>> -- >>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. >>> Director, Creativity + Innovation >>> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology >>> >>> Virginia Tech >>> Creative Technologies in Music >>> School of Performing Arts – 0141 >>> Blacksburg, VA 24061 >>> (540) 231-6139 >>> ico@vt.edu >>> >>> ci.icat.vt.edu >>> l2ork.icat.vt.edu >>> ico.bukvic.net >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 00:29 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Yeah, sure, thanks, it's definitely worth looking since you already >>>> have it working and all. I'm all up for it of course. BTW, I cannot run the >>>> latest pd-l2ork on my 10.14.6 macOS, but I'm having a look at Purr Data to >>>> remember how it rolls... I was never able to really fully understand it. >>>> >>>> Let me see if I have the slightest idea correctly. It seems you have >>>> [preset_hub] that manages (stores and recalls) presets. And you have the >>>> [preset_node] object that connects to GUIs and things you want to store >>>> data from. BTW, seems like a more "Vanilla like" convention would be a >>>> single [preset] object, and you could have [preset hub] and [preset node]. >>>> Anyway, if a change to the core is needed and a whole preset system layout >>>> is to be provided, I wonder if we could also have "preset node names" as >>>> built in symbols in GUI objects. And it'd be great if we could also have >>>> interpolation and morphing, with exponential curves, as in my system in >>>> ELSE, with the [preset hub] object. >>>> >>>> cheers >>>> >>>> Em dom., 12 de nov. de 2023 às 01:37, Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu escreveu: >>>> >>>>> I encourage Miller and the vanilla community to explore pd-l2ork's >>>>> preset_hub and preset_node (see x_preset.c). It will require pd to adopt >>>>> keeping glist consistent across various operations (cut/copy/undo/redo >>>>> etc.). Once done, it allows for presetting of individual objects through >>>>> various contexts that are both embeddable in the patch or can be saved into >>>>> a file. Most importantly, this mechanism is able to distinguish between >>>>> multiple instances of the same abstraction. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Ico >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. >>>>> Director, Creativity + Innovation >>>>> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD >>>>> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology >>>>> >>>>> Virginia Tech >>>>> Creative Technologies in Music >>>>> School of Performing Arts – 0141 >>>>> Blacksburg, VA 24061 >>>>> (540) 231-6139 >>>>> ico@vt.edu >>>>> >>>>> ci.icat.vt.edu >>>>> l2ork.icat.vt.edu >>>>> ico.bukvic.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 7:58 PM Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>> porres@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Em sáb., 11 de nov. de 2023 às 16:11, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Or yet a new functionality for [pdcontrol] if not in [send] or a >>>>>>> whole new object >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> A "retrieve" method to [value] would actually make sense. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, I'm giving ideas and most probably most of you don't really >>>>>> know about my preset system in ELSE in detail. The key element is >>>>>> [savestate], which saves the data in a patch, which are values and receive >>>>>> destinations. So I'm not thinking of another object for preset management, >>>>>> just using this existing one for that, as a side product. The data is saved >>>>>> in a [text] object, which is the best plase to store such a thing and it's >>>>>> the 2nd key element per se. >>>>>> >>>>>> The "retrieve" function is to "grab" the data from objects connected >>>>>> or bound to existing "receive" objects/symbols. This makes things much >>>>>> easier and I hope things are clearer. >>>>>> >>>>>> [value] seems now like a good candidate for this functionality. It >>>>>> would require the injection of a lot of code for this, but maybe that's ok, >>>>>> not sure if this is a good reason to create a whole new object. And it fits >>>>>> into the idea of [value], which can already send a value to another object, >>>>>> so why can't it also 'grab'/'retrieve'? >>>>>> >>>>>> And also, the external abstraction that I mentioned could also be >>>>>> part of the 'extra' library that comes with the Pd distribution, which >>>>>> already has some abstractions anyway. While we're at it, I was already >>>>>> hoping to include yet another abstraction there, a biquad coefficient >>>>>> calculator for the [biquad~] object. >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 16:08 Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>> porres@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Else’s has morphing, interpolation, etc and is an abstraction that >>>>>>>> uses [savestate] and [text] mainly. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It also relies on an external, [retrieve], similar to [grab] from >>>>>>>> MAX. This one gets data from objects connected to named [receive] objects. >>>>>>>> One could make a vanilla version without it, but it’d be much more >>>>>>>> complicated. Or we could have a new [grab] / [retrieve] like object in >>>>>>>> Vanilla, and I could build a Vanilla external abstraction and bring my >>>>>>>> system to vanilla like that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We maybe don’t even need a new object and could have something like >>>>>>>> an extra functionality in [send] where it can get things back. I think some >>>>>>>> net objects work like that and it would hopefully not be too weird or >>>>>>>> crazy, and maybe people would likewise abuse this for other use cases. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Seems like a very not much intrusive addition that opens the door >>>>>>>> for this. What do you people think? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 08:39 KHM t.hartmann t.hartmann@khm.de >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +1 as well, for a native preset system. >>>>>>>>> Best would be the possibility for interpolation between values in >>>>>>>>> various ways, from jump to customisable interpolation curves. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> __________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dr. Tobias Hartmann >>>>>>>>> Künstlerisch-Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter / Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> exMedia - Sound >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kunsthochschule für Medien Köln (KHM) >>>>>>>>> Academy of Media Arts Cologne >>>>>>>>> Peter-Welter-Platz 2 >>>>>>>>> 50676 Köln >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> t.hartmann@khm.de >>>>>>>>> +49 (0) 221 20189 228 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> www.khm.de >>>>>>>>> www.exmedia.khm.de >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> www.hartmanntobias.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 12:02 schrieb hans w. koch <hansw.koch@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +1 for a native preset system. thats the one thing i miss >>>>>>>>> thinking back of the times i used max/msp (particularily the morphing >>>>>>>>> feature). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> advantage over else: it can then be used in PdParty e.g. :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>>> hans >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 06:47 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>>> porres@gmail.com>: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm revisiting this. I'm proud of my presets system in ELSE but I >>>>>>>>> think Pd needs something natively. What do you people think and say? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 14:27, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 01:35, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There's the "morphing" or "interpolation" thing that I may be >>>>>>>>> still neglecting and thinking that using things "line" objects is just as >>>>>>>>> fine, but let's see. I'll also look into how max does interpolation, >>>>>>>>> someone already told me that, I think I have an idea for that too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I neglected the fact that [line] doesn't work with lists :) so I >>>>>>>>> created an object that does it called [morph]. Hence, this takes care of >>>>>>>>> preset transitions. I don't think it's necessary to put this feature inside >>>>>>>>> the preset object as it makes it more complicated and in the end it's good >>>>>>>>> this is a separate object as it's also useful outside the preset system and >>>>>>>>> can be used on its own to morph into different arrays and stuff. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm doing something similar for interpolation, with another object >>>>>>>>> to allow one to manually interpolate between values and lists of values, >>>>>>>>> also incorporating that feature from Max. This should all be up in my >>>>>>>>> repository this weeked. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>> >>>>>