Re: [PD] Preset management for Pd Vanilla

-- Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Director, Creativity + Innovation Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology Virginia Tech Creative Technologies in Music School of Performing Arts – 0141 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-6139 ico@vt.edu ci.icat.vt.edu l2ork.icat.vt.edu ico.bukvic.net On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 2:24 PM Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu wrote: > So, Pd-L2Ork does ship with SDL library but was built on a newer OSX that > does not support older OS versions. If you upgrade your OS to 11.x or > newer, it should work just fine. > > Does anyone else have this issue? > > Best, > > Ico > > -- > Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. > Director, Creativity + Innovation > Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD > Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology > > Virginia Tech > Creative Technologies in Music > School of Performing Arts – 0141 > Blacksburg, VA 24061 > (540) 231-6139 > ico@vt.edu > > ci.icat.vt.edu > l2ork.icat.vt.edu > ico.bukvic.net > > > > On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 8:52 AM Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu wrote: > >> Interesting. Will investigate. Thanks. >> >> Best, >> >> Ico >> >> -- >> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. >> Director, Creativity + Innovation >> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology >> >> Virginia Tech >> Creative Technologies in Music >> School of Performing Arts – 0141 >> Blacksburg, VA 24061 >> (540) 231-6139 >> ico@vt.edu >> >> ci.icat.vt.edu >> l2ork.icat.vt.edu >> ico.bukvic.net >> >> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 08:32 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >>> this [image: Screen Shot 2023-11-12 at 10.31.08.png] >>> >>> Em dom., 12 de nov. de 2023 às 09:40, Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu escreveu: >>> >>>> So, what happens when you get to run Pd-L2Ork on 10.14? >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Ico >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. >>>> Director, Creativity + Innovation >>>> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology >>>> >>>> Virginia Tech >>>> Creative Technologies in Music >>>> School of Performing Arts – 0141 >>>> Blacksburg, VA 24061 >>>> (540) 231-6139 >>>> ico@vt.edu >>>> >>>> ci.icat.vt.edu >>>> l2ork.icat.vt.edu >>>> ico.bukvic.net >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 00:29 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yeah, sure, thanks, it's definitely worth looking since you already >>>>> have it working and all. I'm all up for it of course. BTW, I cannot run the >>>>> latest pd-l2ork on my 10.14.6 macOS, but I'm having a look at Purr Data to >>>>> remember how it rolls... I was never able to really fully understand it. >>>>> >>>>> Let me see if I have the slightest idea correctly. It seems you have >>>>> [preset_hub] that manages (stores and recalls) presets. And you have the >>>>> [preset_node] object that connects to GUIs and things you want to store >>>>> data from. BTW, seems like a more "Vanilla like" convention would be a >>>>> single [preset] object, and you could have [preset hub] and [preset node]. >>>>> Anyway, if a change to the core is needed and a whole preset system layout >>>>> is to be provided, I wonder if we could also have "preset node names" as >>>>> built in symbols in GUI objects. And it'd be great if we could also have >>>>> interpolation and morphing, with exponential curves, as in my system in >>>>> ELSE, with the [preset hub] object. >>>>> >>>>> cheers >>>>> >>>>> Em dom., 12 de nov. de 2023 às 01:37, Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu >>>>> escreveu: >>>>> >>>>>> I encourage Miller and the vanilla community to explore pd-l2ork's >>>>>> preset_hub and preset_node (see x_preset.c). It will require pd to adopt >>>>>> keeping glist consistent across various operations (cut/copy/undo/redo >>>>>> etc.). Once done, it allows for presetting of individual objects through >>>>>> various contexts that are both embeddable in the patch or can be saved into >>>>>> a file. Most importantly, this mechanism is able to distinguish between >>>>>> multiple instances of the same abstraction. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Ico >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. >>>>>> Director, Creativity + Innovation >>>>>> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD >>>>>> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology >>>>>> >>>>>> Virginia Tech >>>>>> Creative Technologies in Music >>>>>> School of Performing Arts – 0141 >>>>>> Blacksburg, VA 24061 >>>>>> (540) 231-6139 >>>>>> ico@vt.edu >>>>>> >>>>>> ci.icat.vt.edu >>>>>> l2ork.icat.vt.edu >>>>>> ico.bukvic.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 7:58 PM Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>> porres@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Em sáb., 11 de nov. de 2023 às 16:11, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Or yet a new functionality for [pdcontrol] if not in [send] or a >>>>>>>> whole new object >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A "retrieve" method to [value] would actually make sense. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, I'm giving ideas and most probably most of you don't really >>>>>>> know about my preset system in ELSE in detail. The key element is >>>>>>> [savestate], which saves the data in a patch, which are values and receive >>>>>>> destinations. So I'm not thinking of another object for preset management, >>>>>>> just using this existing one for that, as a side product. The data is saved >>>>>>> in a [text] object, which is the best plase to store such a thing and it's >>>>>>> the 2nd key element per se. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The "retrieve" function is to "grab" the data from objects connected >>>>>>> or bound to existing "receive" objects/symbols. This makes things much >>>>>>> easier and I hope things are clearer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [value] seems now like a good candidate for this functionality. It >>>>>>> would require the injection of a lot of code for this, but maybe that's ok, >>>>>>> not sure if this is a good reason to create a whole new object. And it fits >>>>>>> into the idea of [value], which can already send a value to another object, >>>>>>> so why can't it also 'grab'/'retrieve'? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And also, the external abstraction that I mentioned could also be >>>>>>> part of the 'extra' library that comes with the Pd distribution, which >>>>>>> already has some abstractions anyway. While we're at it, I was already >>>>>>> hoping to include yet another abstraction there, a biquad coefficient >>>>>>> calculator for the [biquad~] object. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 16:08 Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>> porres@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Else’s has morphing, interpolation, etc and is an abstraction that >>>>>>>>> uses [savestate] and [text] mainly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It also relies on an external, [retrieve], similar to [grab] from >>>>>>>>> MAX. This one gets data from objects connected to named [receive] objects. >>>>>>>>> One could make a vanilla version without it, but it’d be much more >>>>>>>>> complicated. Or we could have a new [grab] / [retrieve] like object in >>>>>>>>> Vanilla, and I could build a Vanilla external abstraction and bring my >>>>>>>>> system to vanilla like that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We maybe don’t even need a new object and could have something >>>>>>>>> like an extra functionality in [send] where it can get things back. I think >>>>>>>>> some net objects work like that and it would hopefully not be too weird or >>>>>>>>> crazy, and maybe people would likewise abuse this for other use cases. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Seems like a very not much intrusive addition that opens the door >>>>>>>>> for this. What do you people think? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 08:39 KHM t.hartmann t.hartmann@khm.de >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> +1 as well, for a native preset system. >>>>>>>>>> Best would be the possibility for interpolation between values in >>>>>>>>>> various ways, from jump to customisable interpolation curves. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dr. Tobias Hartmann >>>>>>>>>> Künstlerisch-Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter / Assistant Professor >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> exMedia - Sound >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Kunsthochschule für Medien Köln (KHM) >>>>>>>>>> Academy of Media Arts Cologne >>>>>>>>>> Peter-Welter-Platz 2 >>>>>>>>>> 50676 Köln >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> t.hartmann@khm.de >>>>>>>>>> +49 (0) 221 20189 228 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> www.khm.de >>>>>>>>>> www.exmedia.khm.de >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> www.hartmanntobias.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 12:02 schrieb hans w. koch <hansw.koch@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> +1 for a native preset system. thats the one thing i miss >>>>>>>>>> thinking back of the times i used max/msp (particularily the morphing >>>>>>>>>> feature). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> advantage over else: it can then be used in PdParty e.g. :-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>>>> hans >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 06:47 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>>>> porres@gmail.com>: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm revisiting this. I'm proud of my presets system in ELSE but I >>>>>>>>>> think Pd needs something natively. What do you people think and say? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 14:27, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>>>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 01:35, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>>>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There's the "morphing" or "interpolation" thing that I may be >>>>>>>>>> still neglecting and thinking that using things "line" objects is just as >>>>>>>>>> fine, but let's see. I'll also look into how max does interpolation, >>>>>>>>>> someone already told me that, I think I have an idea for that too. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I neglected the fact that [line] doesn't work with lists :) so I >>>>>>>>>> created an object that does it called [morph]. Hence, this takes care of >>>>>>>>>> preset transitions. I don't think it's necessary to put this feature inside >>>>>>>>>> the preset object as it makes it more complicated and in the end it's good >>>>>>>>>> this is a separate object as it's also useful outside the preset system and >>>>>>>>>> can be used on its own to morph into different arrays and stuff. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm doing something similar for interpolation, with another >>>>>>>>>> object to allow one to manually interpolate between values and lists of >>>>>>>>>> values, also incorporating that feature from Max. This should all be up in >>>>>>>>>> my repository this weeked. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>