On 10/18/07, Chuckk Hubbard <badmuthahubbard@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/18/07, Yves Degoyon <ydegoyon@free.fr> wrote:
> > olaaaaa,
> >
> > this is an excellent summing up of all that is wrong here...
> > i didn't except to find soo much c.r.a.p. under the carpet ..
> > you can call me a troll, but i don't think i'm so braindead
> > [maybe tired].
>
> You never did explain why you claimed to read phrases like "wet dream" and
> "gang bang" here every day.  Does this kind of language permeate the list
> whenever I turn my back?  As far as I can tell your statement was a
> downright lie, and it caused a pretty long thread full of OT arguments.
> ==troll

OK, I think calling Yves an instigator (ie. trolling) is neither here
nor there.  It's just some dumb little label.  You know that it
doesn't add support for or against the point she made.

Honestly I wasn't even sure this sevy was really Yves, and for that matter I know nothing about Yves. As I said- the original statement was completely untrue; and the original poster hasn't responded to that fact. I honestly did not believe the subject was a problem on this list.

Don't get so caught up on "facts"--the perception and subjective
experience of discrimination/bias is just as important.

And subjective. Which is to say anyone can experience it. The grass is always greener on the other side. As a feeling it's perfectly valid, like all feelings.

and your point is made more clear later on:

> > i started this thread mainly because i wonder why some women
> > feel the need to create their own structures and events,
> > and why we go straight to separatism,
> > separate women and men,
>  .....
> > so why we should have different agendas?
> > one of the reason is that women can't take this macho c.r.ap. anymore.

which is plainly valid.  Other people have added their experiences
that give a broader picture of what's going on, and support this
reason.
.... and outside the art or programming worlds, there is still a great
need for feminism, whether or not you want to call it that.  I won't
try to back this up, I don't think I could adequately explain.

Well like I said, I'd rather try to understand the mechanism behind something than to judge those involved. IMO you can't have a broader picture and pronounce judgments at the same time.