crazy day at the caffee again \


On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 5:23 PM, <pd-list-request@lists.iem.at> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: How does vline~ work under the hood? (Jonathan Wilkes)
   2. Re: How does vline~ work under the hood? (Matt Barber)
   3. Re: How does vline~ work under the hood? (Jonathan Wilkes)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 22:08:16 +0000 (UTC)
From: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika@yahoo.com>
To: Frank Barknecht <fbar@footils.org>,  "pd-list@lists.iem.at"
        <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
Subject: Re: [PD] How does vline~ work under the hood?
Message-ID:
        <655463103.1338937.1443305296609.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Frank,The [1, 0 50( message will almost always trigger differentoutput when fed to [line~] and [vline~].  The only exceptionis when the ramp ends exactly on a block boundary--otherwise [line~] will stretch the final part of the ramp tothe block boundary.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that if visualized this [line~]quantization to new users at the outset they'd almostalways use [vline~].  After all, who wants imperfect lines? :)
-Jonathan





     On Saturday, September 26, 2015 12:57 PM, Frank Barknecht <fbar@footils.org> wrote:


 Hi,

On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 11:24:40PM +0900, i go bananas wrote:
> In that case, maybe an even simpler question:
>
> What is the difference between sending a [1, 0 50(  message to vline as
> opposed to line ?

There will only be a difference in how line~ and vline~ react to this message
when the message was triggered by something with a "clock" inside. These kinds
of messages are called clock-delayed messages.

Clock-delayed messages originate in objects like [metro] or [delay] or [qlist].
Messages that originate for example in mouse clicks are not clock-delayed (i.e.
if you click a [bng] or move a slider).

vline~ evaluates clock delayed message with high, sub-sample timing accuracy.
line~ quantizes even clock delayed messages to block-boundaries or to 64
samples, I'm not sure ATM which it is. But line~ quantizes.

So depending on when the message was issued any by what, the ramp generators
may act the same or different.

Try delaying the message:

 [bang(
 |
 [delay 0.3]
 |
 [1. 0 50(
 |
 [line~ or vline~]
 |
 [print~]

Ciao
--
 Frank Barknecht                                    _ ______footils.org__

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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 19:45:51 -0400
From: Matt Barber <brbrofsvl@gmail.com>
To: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika@yahoo.com>
Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
Subject: Re: [PD] How does vline~ work under the hood?
Message-ID:
        <CAOrke7Fa+xhYa5jzdg_-BHhQfKu-Q400w-+N1umFgW4e1mT+nw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Well, obviously it depends on what you want to use the lines for. If it's
just to fade something in or out over 10-50 ms to avoid a discontinuity,
it's not that big a deal. Moreover sometimes it's great to have the ends
and beginnings of ramps happen at block boundaries; e.g. when [switch~]ing
off a subpatch or abstraction in a synth bank at the end of a quick fade,
it's nice to know that you can target things to boundaries without having
to try too hard.

On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 6:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <
pd-list@lists.iem.at> wrote:

> Hi Frank,
> The [1, 0 50( message will almost always trigger different
> output when fed to [line~] and [vline~].  The only exception
> is when the ramp ends exactly on a block boundary--
> otherwise [line~] will stretch the final part of the ramp to
> the block boundary.
>
> In fact, I'm willing to bet that if visualized this [line~]
> quantization to new users at the outset they'd almost
> always use [vline~].  After all, who wants imperfect lines? :)
>
> -Jonathan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, September 26, 2015 12:57 PM, Frank Barknecht <
> fbar@footils.org> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 11:24:40PM +0900, i go bananas wrote:
> > In that case, maybe an even simpler question:
> >
> > What is the difference between sending a [1, 0 50(  message to vline as
> > opposed to line ?
>
> There will only be a difference in how line~ and vline~ react to this
> message
> when the message was triggered by something with a "clock" inside. These
> kinds
> of messages are called clock-delayed messages.
>
> Clock-delayed messages originate in objects like [metro] or [delay] or
> [qlist].
> Messages that originate for example in mouse clicks are not clock-delayed
> (i.e.
> if you click a [bng] or move a slider).
>
> vline~ evaluates clock delayed message with high, sub-sample timing
> accuracy.
> line~ quantizes even clock delayed messages to block-boundaries or to 64
> samples, I'm not sure ATM which it is. But line~ quantizes.
>
> So depending on when the message was issued any by what, the ramp
> generators
> may act the same or different.
>
> Try delaying the message:
>
> [bang(
> |
> [delay 0.3]
>
> |
> [1. 0 50(
>
> |
> [line~ or vline~]
> |
> [print~]
>
> Ciao
> --
> Frank Barknecht                                    _ ______footils.org__
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 00:23:28 +0000 (UTC)
From: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika@yahoo.com>
To: Matt Barber <brbrofsvl@gmail.com>
Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
Subject: Re: [PD] How does vline~ work under the hood?
Message-ID:
        <626288233.1379665.1443313408523.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I tend to use [vline~] in those cases because-- to my ears-- it sounds warmer.

(I so wanted to click send, but I have to come clean and say I'm just kidding.)
-Jonathan



     On Saturday, September 26, 2015 7:46 PM, Matt Barber <brbrofsvl@gmail.com> wrote:


 Well, obviously it depends on what you want to use the lines for. If it's just to fade something in or out over 10-50 ms to avoid a discontinuity, it's not that big a deal. Moreover sometimes it's great to have the ends and beginnings of ramps happen at block boundaries; e.g. when [switch~]ing off a subpatch or abstraction in a synth bank at the end of a quick fade, it's nice to know that you can target things to boundaries without having to try too hard.
On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 6:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <pd-list@lists.iem.at> wrote:

Hi Frank,The [1, 0 50( message will almost always trigger differentoutput when fed to [line~] and [vline~].  The only exceptionis when the ramp ends exactly on a block boundary--otherwise [line~] will stretch the final part of the ramp tothe block boundary.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that if visualized this [line~]quantization to new users at the outset they'd almostalways use [vline~].  After all, who wants imperfect lines? :)
-Jonathan





     On Saturday, September 26, 2015 12:57 PM, Frank Barknecht <fbar@footils.org> wrote:


 Hi,

On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 11:24:40PM +0900, i go bananas wrote:
> In that case, maybe an even simpler question:
>
> What is the difference between sending a [1, 0 50(  message to vline as
> opposed to line ?

There will only be a difference in how line~ and vline~ react to this message
when the message was triggered by something with a "clock" inside. These kinds
of messages are called clock-delayed messages.

Clock-delayed messages originate in objects like [metro] or [delay] or [qlist].
Messages that originate for example in mouse clicks are not clock-delayed (i.e.
if you click a [bng] or move a slider).

vline~ evaluates clock delayed message with high, sub-sample timing accuracy.
line~ quantizes even clock delayed messages to block-boundaries or to 64
samples, I'm not sure ATM which it is. But line~ quantizes.

So depending on when the message was issued any by what, the ramp generators
may act the same or different.

Try delaying the message:

 [bang(
 |
 [delay 0.3]
 |
 [1. 0 50(
 |
 [line~ or vline~]
 |
 [print~]

Ciao
--
 Frank Barknecht                                    _ ______footils.org__

_______________________________________________
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list



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