>> How deader was art back when Michel-Ange was having a contract with
>> the
>> Church and the Church was a major political power ? What with those
>> long
>> spans of art history in which if art wasn't about the bible it was
>> about
>> the royal family. You can't get much more politically-controlled than
>>
>> that.

You should really listen to some old music. Bach, for instance, did time in jail, because he spoke down to his employer once. And people used to think his music was "dirty"(Not much has changed since. Same thing happens today when the general public is confronted with something a bit unfamiliar, and people will still today not be able to digest some of Bachs music, because it is just too hard to listen to).

He wrote mostly religious music, and it was not always so comfortable for the church people, since Bach liked to play really dissonant music. He stretched the boundaries, when he could.

Of course, he couldn't go too far. There are some pieces where he goes much further, which are not meant for Concert use (for the genereal public). Check out the fugue in h-minor in Wohltemperierte Clavier, Book 1. The initial melody line is 20th century stuff. Some of the pieces Bach wrote had no audience, so he wrote them for himself and anyone who would listen. Mostly music scholars would play and study it.

People pretty much didn't know about Bachs existence until Mendelssohn brought his music back to life in the 20th century, about 100 years after Bach had died, though composers in Europe always knew about Bach and studied his music with great interest.
Now of course, who doesn't know about Bach. But do they really know about Bach?

Composers through all times have done that sort of thing. Plato disliked chromatic, improvised music that had no vocals. Plato thought certain music was morally destructive, while some other music was morally empowering. So he wanted to censor certain types of music. At least to keep it from young people hear it who were destined to become soldiers or leaders.
They were playing "jazz" already in Ancient Greece, and Plato hated it.
He is many ways the first fundamentalist. His ideas are not too far from any totalitarian idea-based movement.

I get a little uncomfortable sometimes when talking about art. People can have a very sort of romantic idea about it. They talk about artists as if they don't really exist. The artist is so elevated that a "normal" person can't even begin to comprehend the mysteries of the artist mind.
This is not a too uncommon belief among the artists them selves, which kind of makes the situation worse.
I think it is only one stone throw away from religion, which in a way, any belief can be.
Wagner met with his fellow Bruckner once, and they went to pray at Wagners grave (he had already had it built for himself).

Beethovens idea of making music for the masses was kind of revolutionary.
Now, making music for the masses is kind of selling out.
But, what has changed?
Not music. Not the artist.
Society, maybe. The relationship between the art and society.

I'm not much for commercial music, or anything commercial. But I'm not really against it either. I'm not going to decide for anyone else. I'll leave that to Plato Co.

-Ailo