Re: [PD] Preset management for Pd Vanilla

-- Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Director, Creativity + Innovation Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology Virginia Tech Creative Technologies in Music School of Performing Arts – 0141 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-6139 ico@vt.edu ci.icat.vt.edu l2ork.icat.vt.edu ico.bukvic.net On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 08:32 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote: > this [image: Screen Shot 2023-11-12 at 10.31.08.png] > > Em dom., 12 de nov. de 2023 às 09:40, Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu escreveu: > >> So, what happens when you get to run Pd-L2Ork on 10.14? >> >> Best, >> >> Ico >> >> -- >> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. >> Director, Creativity + Innovation >> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology >> >> Virginia Tech >> Creative Technologies in Music >> School of Performing Arts – 0141 >> Blacksburg, VA 24061 >> (540) 231-6139 >> ico@vt.edu >> >> ci.icat.vt.edu >> l2ork.icat.vt.edu >> ico.bukvic.net >> >> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 00:29 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >>> Yeah, sure, thanks, it's definitely worth looking since you already have >>> it working and all. I'm all up for it of course. BTW, I cannot run the >>> latest pd-l2ork on my 10.14.6 macOS, but I'm having a look at Purr Data to >>> remember how it rolls... I was never able to really fully understand it. >>> >>> Let me see if I have the slightest idea correctly. It seems you have >>> [preset_hub] that manages (stores and recalls) presets. And you have the >>> [preset_node] object that connects to GUIs and things you want to store >>> data from. BTW, seems like a more "Vanilla like" convention would be a >>> single [preset] object, and you could have [preset hub] and [preset node]. >>> Anyway, if a change to the core is needed and a whole preset system layout >>> is to be provided, I wonder if we could also have "preset node names" as >>> built in symbols in GUI objects. And it'd be great if we could also have >>> interpolation and morphing, with exponential curves, as in my system in >>> ELSE, with the [preset hub] object. >>> >>> cheers >>> >>> Em dom., 12 de nov. de 2023 às 01:37, Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu escreveu: >>> >>>> I encourage Miller and the vanilla community to explore pd-l2ork's >>>> preset_hub and preset_node (see x_preset.c). It will require pd to adopt >>>> keeping glist consistent across various operations (cut/copy/undo/redo >>>> etc.). Once done, it allows for presetting of individual objects through >>>> various contexts that are both embeddable in the patch or can be saved into >>>> a file. Most importantly, this mechanism is able to distinguish between >>>> multiple instances of the same abstraction. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Ico >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. >>>> Director, Creativity + Innovation >>>> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD >>>> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology >>>> >>>> Virginia Tech >>>> Creative Technologies in Music >>>> School of Performing Arts – 0141 >>>> Blacksburg, VA 24061 >>>> (540) 231-6139 >>>> ico@vt.edu >>>> >>>> ci.icat.vt.edu >>>> l2ork.icat.vt.edu >>>> ico.bukvic.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 7:58 PM Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>> porres@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Em sáb., 11 de nov. de 2023 às 16:11, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>>>> >>>>>> Or yet a new functionality for [pdcontrol] if not in [send] or a >>>>>> whole new object >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A "retrieve" method to [value] would actually make sense. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, I'm giving ideas and most probably most of you don't really >>>>> know about my preset system in ELSE in detail. The key element is >>>>> [savestate], which saves the data in a patch, which are values and receive >>>>> destinations. So I'm not thinking of another object for preset management, >>>>> just using this existing one for that, as a side product. The data is saved >>>>> in a [text] object, which is the best plase to store such a thing and it's >>>>> the 2nd key element per se. >>>>> >>>>> The "retrieve" function is to "grab" the data from objects connected >>>>> or bound to existing "receive" objects/symbols. This makes things much >>>>> easier and I hope things are clearer. >>>>> >>>>> [value] seems now like a good candidate for this functionality. It >>>>> would require the injection of a lot of code for this, but maybe that's ok, >>>>> not sure if this is a good reason to create a whole new object. And it fits >>>>> into the idea of [value], which can already send a value to another object, >>>>> so why can't it also 'grab'/'retrieve'? >>>>> >>>>> And also, the external abstraction that I mentioned could also be part >>>>> of the 'extra' library that comes with the Pd distribution, which already >>>>> has some abstractions anyway. While we're at it, I was already hoping to >>>>> include yet another abstraction there, a biquad coefficient calculator for >>>>> the [biquad~] object. >>>>> >>>>> cheers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 16:08 Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>> porres@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Else’s has morphing, interpolation, etc and is an abstraction that >>>>>>> uses [savestate] and [text] mainly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It also relies on an external, [retrieve], similar to [grab] from >>>>>>> MAX. This one gets data from objects connected to named [receive] objects. >>>>>>> One could make a vanilla version without it, but it’d be much more >>>>>>> complicated. Or we could have a new [grab] / [retrieve] like object in >>>>>>> Vanilla, and I could build a Vanilla external abstraction and bring my >>>>>>> system to vanilla like that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We maybe don’t even need a new object and could have something like >>>>>>> an extra functionality in [send] where it can get things back. I think some >>>>>>> net objects work like that and it would hopefully not be too weird or >>>>>>> crazy, and maybe people would likewise abuse this for other use cases. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Seems like a very not much intrusive addition that opens the door >>>>>>> for this. What do you people think? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 08:39 KHM t.hartmann t.hartmann@khm.de >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> +1 as well, for a native preset system. >>>>>>>> Best would be the possibility for interpolation between values in >>>>>>>> various ways, from jump to customisable interpolation curves. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dr. Tobias Hartmann >>>>>>>> Künstlerisch-Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter / Assistant Professor >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> exMedia - Sound >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kunsthochschule für Medien Köln (KHM) >>>>>>>> Academy of Media Arts Cologne >>>>>>>> Peter-Welter-Platz 2 >>>>>>>> 50676 Köln >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> t.hartmann@khm.de >>>>>>>> +49 (0) 221 20189 228 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> www.khm.de >>>>>>>> www.exmedia.khm.de >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> www.hartmanntobias.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 12:02 schrieb hans w. koch hansw.koch@gmail.com: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> +1 for a native preset system. thats the one thing i miss >>>>>>>> thinking back of the times i used max/msp (particularily the morphing >>>>>>>> feature). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> advantage over else: it can then be used in PdParty e.g. :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>> hans >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 06:47 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>> porres@gmail.com>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm revisiting this. I'm proud of my presets system in ELSE but I >>>>>>>> think Pd needs something natively. What do you people think and say? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 14:27, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 01:35, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>>>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There's the "morphing" or "interpolation" thing that I may be still >>>>>>>> neglecting and thinking that using things "line" objects is just as fine, >>>>>>>> but let's see. I'll also look into how max does interpolation, someone >>>>>>>> already told me that, I think I have an idea for that too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I neglected the fact that [line] doesn't work with lists :) so I >>>>>>>> created an object that does it called [morph]. Hence, this takes care of >>>>>>>> preset transitions. I don't think it's necessary to put this feature inside >>>>>>>> the preset object as it makes it more complicated and in the end it's good >>>>>>>> this is a separate object as it's also useful outside the preset system and >>>>>>>> can be used on its own to morph into different arrays and stuff. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm doing something similar for interpolation, with another object >>>>>>>> to allow one to manually interpolate between values and lists of values, >>>>>>>> also incorporating that feature from Max. This should all be up in my >>>>>>>> repository this weeked. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> cheers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>> >>>>