Re: [PD] Preset management for Pd Vanilla

-- Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Director, Creativity + Innovation Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology Virginia Tech Creative Technologies in Music School of Performing Arts – 0141 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-6139 ico@vt.edu ci.icat.vt.edu l2ork.icat.vt.edu ico.bukvic.net On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 00:29 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote: > Yeah, sure, thanks, it's definitely worth looking since you already have > it working and all. I'm all up for it of course. BTW, I cannot run the > latest pd-l2ork on my 10.14.6 macOS, but I'm having a look at Purr Data to > remember how it rolls... I was never able to really fully understand it. > > Let me see if I have the slightest idea correctly. It seems you have > [preset_hub] that manages (stores and recalls) presets. And you have the > [preset_node] object that connects to GUIs and things you want to store > data from. BTW, seems like a more "Vanilla like" convention would be a > single [preset] object, and you could have [preset hub] and [preset node]. > Anyway, if a change to the core is needed and a whole preset system layout > is to be provided, I wonder if we could also have "preset node names" as > built in symbols in GUI objects. And it'd be great if we could also have > interpolation and morphing, with exponential curves, as in my system in > ELSE, with the [preset hub] object. > > cheers > > Em dom., 12 de nov. de 2023 às 01:37, Ico Bukvic ico@vt.edu escreveu: > >> I encourage Miller and the vanilla community to explore pd-l2ork's >> preset_hub and preset_node (see x_preset.c). It will require pd to adopt >> keeping glist consistent across various operations (cut/copy/undo/redo >> etc.). Once done, it allows for presetting of individual objects through >> various contexts that are both embeddable in the patch or can be saved into >> a file. Most importantly, this mechanism is able to distinguish between >> multiple instances of the same abstraction. >> >> Best, >> >> Ico >> >> -- >> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. >> Director, Creativity + Innovation >> Director, Human-Centered Design iPhD >> Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology >> >> Virginia Tech >> Creative Technologies in Music >> School of Performing Arts – 0141 >> Blacksburg, VA 24061 >> (540) 231-6139 >> ico@vt.edu >> >> ci.icat.vt.edu >> l2ork.icat.vt.edu >> ico.bukvic.net >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 11, 2023 at 7:58 PM Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Em sáb., 11 de nov. de 2023 às 16:11, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>> >>>> Or yet a new functionality for [pdcontrol] if not in [send] or a whole >>>> new object >>>> >>> >>> A "retrieve" method to [value] would actually make sense. >>> >>> Anyway, I'm giving ideas and most probably most of you don't really know >>> about my preset system in ELSE in detail. The key element is [savestate], >>> which saves the data in a patch, which are values and receive destinations. >>> So I'm not thinking of another object for preset management, just using >>> this existing one for that, as a side product. The data is saved in a >>> [text] object, which is the best plase to store such a thing and it's the >>> 2nd key element per se. >>> >>> The "retrieve" function is to "grab" the data from objects connected or >>> bound to existing "receive" objects/symbols. This makes things much easier >>> and I hope things are clearer. >>> >>> [value] seems now like a good candidate for this functionality. It would >>> require the injection of a lot of code for this, but maybe that's ok, not >>> sure if this is a good reason to create a whole new object. And it fits >>> into the idea of [value], which can already send a value to another object, >>> so why can't it also 'grab'/'retrieve'? >>> >>> And also, the external abstraction that I mentioned could also be part >>> of the 'extra' library that comes with the Pd distribution, which already >>> has some abstractions anyway. While we're at it, I was already hoping to >>> include yet another abstraction there, a biquad coefficient calculator for >>> the [biquad~] object. >>> >>> cheers >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 16:08 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Else’s has morphing, interpolation, etc and is an abstraction that >>>>> uses [savestate] and [text] mainly. >>>>> >>>>> It also relies on an external, [retrieve], similar to [grab] from MAX. >>>>> This one gets data from objects connected to named [receive] objects. One >>>>> could make a vanilla version without it, but it’d be much more complicated. >>>>> Or we could have a new [grab] / [retrieve] like object in Vanilla, and I >>>>> could build a Vanilla external abstraction and bring my system to vanilla >>>>> like that. >>>>> >>>>> We maybe don’t even need a new object and could have something like an >>>>> extra functionality in [send] where it can get things back. I think some >>>>> net objects work like that and it would hopefully not be too weird or >>>>> crazy, and maybe people would likewise abuse this for other use cases. >>>>> >>>>> Seems like a very not much intrusive addition that opens the door for >>>>> this. What do you people think? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 at 08:39 KHM t.hartmann t.hartmann@khm.de wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> +1 as well, for a native preset system. >>>>>> Best would be the possibility for interpolation between values in >>>>>> various ways, from jump to customisable interpolation curves. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. Tobias Hartmann >>>>>> Künstlerisch-Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter / Assistant Professor >>>>>> >>>>>> exMedia - Sound >>>>>> >>>>>> Kunsthochschule für Medien Köln (KHM) >>>>>> Academy of Media Arts Cologne >>>>>> Peter-Welter-Platz 2 >>>>>> 50676 Köln >>>>>> >>>>>> t.hartmann@khm.de >>>>>> +49 (0) 221 20189 228 >>>>>> >>>>>> www.khm.de >>>>>> www.exmedia.khm.de >>>>>> >>>>>> www.hartmanntobias.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 12:02 schrieb hans w. koch hansw.koch@gmail.com: >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 for a native preset system. thats the one thing i miss thinking >>>>>> back of the times i used max/msp (particularily the morphing feature). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> advantage over else: it can then be used in PdParty e.g. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers >>>>>> hans >>>>>> >>>>>> Am 11.11.2023 um 06:47 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>> porres@gmail.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm revisiting this. I'm proud of my presets system in ELSE but I >>>>>> think Pd needs something natively. What do you people think and say? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 14:27, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>>>>> >>>>>> Em sex., 22 de jan. de 2021 às 01:35, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>>>>> porres@gmail.com> escreveu: >>>>>> >>>>>> There's the "morphing" or "interpolation" thing that I may be still >>>>>> neglecting and thinking that using things "line" objects is just as fine, >>>>>> but let's see. I'll also look into how max does interpolation, someone >>>>>> already told me that, I think I have an idea for that too. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I neglected the fact that [line] doesn't work with lists :) so I >>>>>> created an object that does it called [morph]. Hence, this takes care of >>>>>> preset transitions. I don't think it's necessary to put this feature inside >>>>>> the preset object as it makes it more complicated and in the end it's good >>>>>> this is a separate object as it's also useful outside the preset system and >>>>>> can be used on its own to morph into different arrays and stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm doing something similar for interpolation, with another object to >>>>>> allow one to manually interpolate between values and lists of values, also >>>>>> incorporating that feature from Max. This should all be up in my repository >>>>>> this weeked. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>> >>