On 6/7/07, jared <microcosm11@msn.com> wrote:

On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 03:40:51PM +0100, timon wrote:
> Some time ago I was explained the issues of why FTGL libs was not
> included GEM for the extended OSX release of PD. The answer did not
> make me any wiser. The conclusion was "Compile it yourself".  Its a
> shame that such a great tool (as GEM could be) is falling into the
> shade by elitist attitude.

>Sometimes I think what can be perceived as 'elitism' is actually just a
>lack of time. Remember that the people working on this aren't being
>paid; they are hobbyists producing code in their spare time. They may
>simply not have the resources to solve your particular problem and
hence
>they ask you to try and solve it yourself.

All of the work done (out of love, not money) by the pd community should
be applauded.  With that said, there is a sense of elitism.  I'm not
talking only about the PD community here, though.  Take the users of the
'industry standard' software, such as Logic and ProTools.  It's no
secret that many of these users look down their nose at those musicians
who use software like Ableton Live, FL Studio, Orion Pro and the like.
Then you have the users of more 'academic' software (PD, Max\MSP,
Csound, etc.) who often seem to have a sense of superiority; I've seen
Csound users look down on Max/MSP users.

I remember a couple of weeks ago, someone on this list posted a piece
that used PD as the sound generation source, but he then arranged and
mixed the piece in Live.  Then someone commented with an elitist tone as
to why he used Live at all.  Further, I've seen coders look down on
those who use anything that isn't purely programming.  Everyone loves
their tools, and there will always be a sense of pride in those tools.
But, my god, its friggin software!  No need to be rude.

Then again, a lot of my opinion is based upon interaction with other
users over the internet.  This, in of itself, may be the cause for this
sense of elitism.  While talking on forums and lists, I often find that
people have very short fuses and are often argumentative or simply look
down on 'newbies'.  I think that some people are comfortable being rude
or unhelpful because there aren't any repercussions from acting in such
a way; they don't have to face the person they're communicating with.
I'd like to think that a lot of the people who act rude or elite on
lists and forums wouldn't act that way if you were to talk to them face
to face.

While I'm ranting :-)....In my academic experience, it's often frowned
upon to use other's patches in your own compositions because it seems
that the patches themselves are the work of art; and it's almost as if
this is considered plagiarism.  And while I agree that designing
patches/programs/instruments IS an art-form, I don't understand why it
isn't encouraged for composers to use other people's
patches/instruments.  Can you imagine if Chopin had to build every piano
that he ever played?  Thank goodness Hendrix was a guitar player, not a
guitar builder.

I think academia needs to recognize that there are many composers who
use computers as a means to an end; who make music with the AID of
computers; not to make music WITH computers.  There is still a rigid
line that separates the composer and the programmer.  Most Music
curriculums are still classically based.  Most Music Technology
curriculums are programming based.  What about today's composers who are
interested in classical compositional techniques and forms, but who are,
at heart, electronic music composers and want to apply these classical
techniques and forms to their electronic compositions with the AID of
technology, yet have no interest in programming?

[steps down from his soap box]

:-)

Jared

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