>> The real part may be used as a resonant
>> bandpass filter and the imaginary as a 
>> resonant low-pass filter, but they can be
>> combined to make other possibilities."

> what sort of possibilities???

I wouldn't expect much about this. I guess it's like any other filters that can be combined in many ways.

Another thing I wanted to inquire is about bp~ having a frequency response that is not symmetric. The lower part of the spectrum has more energy. Could one consider it more of a "resonant low-pass filter", similar to [vcf~]'s second outlet?

By the way, while we're at it, I'd like to share something that may not be too important, but it's related. I was able to implement [cpole~] in [fexpr~]. Here it goes:

expr 1:

[fexpr~ $x1 + ($x3 * $y1) - ($x4 * $y2);
$x2 + ($x4 * $y1) + ($x3 * $y2)]

if we consider $x3 and $x4 as variables named, respectively, coefr (coeficient for the real part) and coefi (coeficient for the imaginary part), we then have:

expr 2:

[fexpr~ $x1 + (coefr * $y1) - (coefi * $y2);
$x2 + (coefi * $y1) + (coefr * $y2)]

Now, by checking the code of [vcf~] I was able to narrow down to its core formula, which is something like this

expr 3:

ampcorrect * oneminusr * f1 + (coefr * re2) - (coefi * im);
(coefi * re2) + (coefr * im)

the bolded letters in "expr 3" seem to match perfectly to "expr 2". The differences are underlined ($x2 in expr 2 and ampcorrect/oneminusr in expr 3).

That gets me closer to being able to implement [vcf~] with a [cpole~] I guess, but I find it weird that the imaginary output does not have the $x2 signal input to be added to the rest of the expression. I worry that actually prevents it from being successfully implemented with [cpole~]. Am I missing something?

Anyway, the thing is that I'm still really curious to learn wether vcf~ is a "two pole" filter or a "one complex pole" filter, and the reason behind it is because I believe we could make a biquad~ version of [vcf~] (at least for its real output). That's the bottom line.

cheers




2014-07-24 6:45 GMT-03:00 i go bananas <hard.off@gmail.com>:
just chipping in with my 2 cents that it would be fantastic to get more documented info on all this.

especially curious about:  "but they can be combined to make other possibilities."

what sort of possibilities???  


On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Miller, still trying to get my head around this. But anyway, one thing I have to note is that the source code of [vcf~] says it is a "two pole filter", not a "one complex pole" filter.

Should that description be changed? If not, why?

thanks


2014-04-12 14:13 GMT-03:00 Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edu>:

Yep - vcf~ is essentially a wrapper for cpole~.

cheers
M

On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 02:10:19PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> that's great to know, thanks!
>
> Let me just see if I get a bit of the theory. Can I get [vcf~] with just
> one [cpole~] object and the right coeficients?
>
> Cheers
>
>
> 2014-04-12 13:36 GMT-03:00 Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edu>:
>
> > They're quite different.  bp~ is the cheapest possible bandpass filter
> > (as far as I know).  vcf~ is a one-pole complex filter whose outputs are
> > the real and imaginry parts.  The real part may be used as a resonant
> > bandpass filter and the imaginary as a resonant low-pass filter, but
> > they can be combined to make other possibilities.
> >
> > It's possible to graph their frequency responses using the help patch
> > "H10.measurement.pd' in 3.audio.examples.
> >
> > cheers
> > Miller
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 04:28:11AM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > Hi there, who can confirm that both [bp~] and [vcf~] are exactly the
> > really
> > > same thingy? The code looks quite different...
> > >
> > > Moreover, why the two outlets for vcf~? Help doesn't say anything.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >


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