Having used Pd for two decades, this still catches me occasionally. I was only able to debug the problem because I knew this could be an issue. Guess the UI doesn't allow for some kind of subtle indication that you've fanned connections from an outlet. Would be nice though if a little "x2", "x3", and "x4" would pop up next to your mouse cursor when you are making a connection and mouse over the next inlet. Not sure if this would even be trackable using send and receive, because this is another place where one outlet can go to multiple inlets in a manner that feels indeterminate.

Sam





On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 7:37 AM <pd-list-request@lists.iem.at> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: [midifile] (Dan Wilcox)
   2. Re: [midifile] (IOhannes m zmoelnig)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:53:07 +0100
From: Dan Wilcox <danomatika@gmail.com>
To: Roman Haefeli <reduzent@gmail.com>
Cc: Pd-List <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile]
Message-ID: <47594F6D-C540-45DD-99AA-7FE0F47A2E49@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I agree, this is an established aspect of patching in Pd and changing it is not likely possible at this point. A positive reinforcement for using trigger is that it's simply more readable. I also admit to using fanning when I know order isn't as important for that case,

I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order differences, ie. on canvas placement versus creation order. Forgive me if this info is in our documentation, I admit to not having gone through it since circa 2006 when I first started with Pd.

> On Feb 10, 2022, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 10:30:36 +0100
> From: Roman Haefeli <reduzent@gmail.com <mailto:reduzent@gmail.com>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile]
> Message-ID: <32c6cc64713fab78eae64728309bb95975471116.camel@gmail.com <mailto:32c6cc64713fab78eae64728309bb95975471116.camel@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Thu, 2022-02-10 at 10:09 +0100, Max wrote:
>
>> Should Pd warn the user when one outlet is connected to multiple
>> objects?
>
> I'd rather want Pd not to do that.
>
> 1) There are too many cases where fanning outlet connections are OK.
>
> 2) I believe it's more valuable if people do not fanning connections
> because they understand their implications rather than because a
> message tells them to avoid them.
>
> 3) I'm personally not so fond of the idea of giving people patching
> advice.

--------
Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 13:36:28 +0100
From: IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoelnig@iem.at>
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] [midifile]
Message-ID: <c6e06792-051d-b9de-81ef-631da616fcf1@iem.at>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

On 2/10/22 12:53, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> I feel like often these problems also come from people trying Pd out after being more familiar with Max. Perhaps it would be good if Pd included a mini "Pd for Max users" guide which starts with execution order differences,

hmm.
i'd prefer a "tip-of-the-day".
order of execution is important enough that everybody should be aware of
it, whether they come from max, vvvv, csound or out of the blue.

i figure your argument is, that most of these have to learn Pd from
scratch anyhow and will eventually come to the "use [trigger]" section
in the documentation, whereas the max users would just dive into it (as
Pd has been sold to them as something you can use your Max-skills with
without having to pay the license).

my argument is that people who find tips-of-the-day useful are not power
users yet and as such an occasional reminder won't hurt.

gfdmas
IOhannes

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