Pd-list March 2014

pd-list@lists.iem.at

85 participants
111 discussions

100k lines of code (was libpd separating gui from core)
by me.grimm 10 Mar '14

10 Mar '14

Hi Miller, I know you probably have more pressing problems but it would be nice to get something like [getdir] in vanilla before you hit those 100k lines of code OR 50 years are up :) I know you have been bugged in the past but I just wanted to throw it in again in case I could put some influence into you moving such functionality up the "to do" list... >> built to last 50 years. It's now about 17 ywars in (1/3 of its intended lifetime.) BTW I find this to be so cool. software minimalism at its finest. for me, there is no reason to go elsewhere... thanks for all the work! m On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Miller Puckette <msp(a)ucsd.edu> wrote: > HI all - > > My figure was 100K lines, not 10K. PD's C code is at about 70K now, and > the > Tcl/TK code is 7K - so I am only adding expansions very carefully now. > > Another related idea with an absurdly arbitrary round number attached: the > code is > built to last 50 years. It's now about 17 ywars in (1/3 of its intended > lifetime.) > > cheers > Miller > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 06:26:43PM -0500, Ivica Bukvic wrote: > > What I have been doing is solidifying core features to get a better idea > of > > what the source should look like. Separating anything beforehand will > > result in s lot of problems/busywork later. I would also not deceive > myself > > that 10K lines is enough. Pd-extended is way above that when you include > > 3rs party externals. Ditto for pd-l2ork. > > On Feb 26, 2014 6:10 PM, "Peter Brinkmann" < > peter.brinkmann(a)googlemail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Ivica Bukvic <ico(a)vt.edu> wrote: > > > > > >> The reason why I believe combining all of these will not be feasible > is > > >> because in one of my recent conversations with Miller (and Miller > please > > >> correct me if I somehow misremember here) he expressed his belief any > > >> project that exceeds N lines of code which I believe in this case it > was > > >> something like 10000, it becomes unmaintainable and dies. > > >> > > > That's why separating the GUI from the audio engine is so important. I > > > sort of agree that 10000 lines of irreducible GUI+audio code would > probably > > > be unmaintainable. On the other hand, 5000 lines of audio code plus > 5000 > > > lines of GUI code, communicating through a smallish, well-defined > > > interface, wouldn't be a problem at all. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- ____________________ m.e.grimm | m.f.a | ed.m. megrimm(a)gmail.com _________________________________

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udoo board sound issues
by Simon Iten 09 Mar '14

09 Mar '14

hey list, does anybody that uses an udoo board have any recommendations on a usb-soundcard? should be very compact. i tried a cheap one from dx and i could not get any good results (loads of xruns even with periods 3 and 1024 and up frames in qjackctl) this is on the ubuntu version from udoo. are there some tweaks i can do to improve usb-sound capabilities? i thought maybe recompile the kernel with only usb-1 support since there is no option as on the pi to disable usb-2 via config, or am i missing something? is it better to use the usb-soundcard without jack (pd does not like the usb-soundcard either when i tried briefly)? the internal sound-input is to noisy for my application (guitar effect) cheers.

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mac os9 version
by Simon Iten 09 Mar '14

09 Mar '14

is there or better was there ever a version of pure data for mac os9? the bits i find on the net seem to indicate no. but maybe a call here will reveal a version. (miller?) thanks

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Re: [PD] Data structures and click event
by Dan Wilcox 08 Mar '14

08 Mar '14

On Mar 8, 2014, at 5:59 AM, pd-list-request(a)iem.at wrote: > > No. It requires a toolkit that has modern 2d features like affine transformations and opacity, etc. Pd-l2ork leverages Tkpath, a tcl/tk library. Other modern toolkits like Qt have their own 2d interfaces with the same features and could be used, but tcl/tk on its own does not. > >> for the non-unix users out there? > > For OSX, one of the tcl/tk libraries-- Tkpath needs to be ported from Carbon to Cocoa. I have this about halfway done. I finally found the old QuickTime Carbon headers so I could port the old school font creation to CoreText. All of the old Quick Draw stuff is no longer on the Apple Developer docs, so it was a bit confusing at first. It will take a little while though since I dip into it now and then among everything else. > I haven't investigated a Windows port yet but it's probably mostly a matter of setting up the proper compile environment more than anything else. Granted one would probably need to tweak pd.tk and L2ork's build script, but getting set up in Windows seems to be where most of the work is. (At least in my experience so far.) It shouldn't require too much beyond the current steps to build vanilla or extended on Windows: a mingw + msys enviornent. Tkpath uses an autoconf build system so it should be fine on Windows as long as you point it to the tcl/tk headers. The issue with OSX is that it simple hasn't been updated in a while but I imagine it's fine on Windows since MS moves very very slowly as far as moving to new APIs is concerned. -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com

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[bark] analysis parameters
by João Pais 08 Mar '14

08 Mar '14

Hi William and list, I write here because the informations could be of interest to more people. I was trying out with [bark], and had some questions. What are the limits of the parameters thresh, mask, debounce and filter_range? Or are there none, only making the analysis last longer the higher the parameters are set? A related question, do you have a kind of preset for the analysis parameters adequate for certain types of sounds? As I only see the output of the analysis, I can't preview exactly how the change in parameters affects the result - although that might be a question of experience... Is the output of the middle and right outlets explained somewhere? What is it and what's its format? Would the debug output be more useful if it had an index of the analyzed onset before the values? Why the [moses 200] in the measure subpatch? Wouldn't the restraining of values make a false analysis? Or you did it because of the concrete Satie example? (The debounce parameter was explained in 2 different places in the patch.) I redesigned your help patch, so that it's now a general-purpose analysis tool. Later will also display of the analysis results over the audio array. If you're interested, I can send it to the list. Best, jmmmp

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KMI SoftStep foot controller?
by Jonghyun Kim 07 Mar '14

07 Mar '14

Hi list, I think the SoftStep with Pd for live performance. Has anyone experienced the SoftStep with Pure Data? It can be a good solution for live situation with Pd? I think SoftStep one, not a 2nd edition. First edition is cheaper than 2nd. http://www.keithmcmillen.com/softstep Thanks, Jong

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Re: [PD] RjDj/ScenePlayer for iOS?
by Dan Wilcox 07 Mar '14

07 Mar '14

Thanks Dan, Chris, and a few others who sent something. Yesterday was one of those bad days + I was sick :( I guess I've just been a bit disappointed with what I perceived as a lack of interest, but then again that would probably change once it's out on the App Store. I started with a need that transformed into an open tool for everyone so I've probably spent alot more effort to get it to that quality then if I only needed it for a few personal projects. I will be happy when I get video and patches back from people using it in performance ... not to mention myself getting away from coding and doing the same! Again, if anyone wants to join the beta, let me know. I'm going to probably have 1 or two more releases as I add some things I think are needed for an app store release. On Mar 7, 2014, at 9:37 AM, pd-list-request(a)iem.at wrote: > From: Dan Nigrin <dan(a)defectiverecords.com> > Subject: Re: [PD] RjDj/ScenePlayer for iOS? > Date: March 7, 2014 at 7:00:07 AM EST > To: PD List <pd-list(a)iem.at> > > > Dan, FWIW I very much appreciate the work you've done on PdParty, and though as you know my testing was very brief and limited primarily to MIDI-related support, it worked well in the simple test case I programmed. > > Perhaps more importantly, and as has been discussed a bit in here in recent weeks, as a purely Max-based person till now, I began to explore Pd for the sole reason that it offered more iOS and Android support than what's currently available for Max. Things like PdParty are what brought me this way... -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com

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[PD-announce] Visceral resonances from New York, Amsterdam and Karlsruhe
by Marco Donnarumma 07 Mar '14

07 Mar '14

(sorry for x-posts) Dears, here's my 6-monthly newsletter, hope you enjoy the reading. http://marcodonnarumma.com/next/march2014/ What's up: - Watch Ominous, an incarnated sound sculpture - Xth Sense biophysical music workshop in New York - Next performances in New York, Amsterdam and Karlsruhe - The Xth Sense: Phase #2 launch at LISA Salon, New York - On the press: "Molding sound with flesh" on Create Digital Music best wishes, -- Marco Donnarumma Performer, body tinkerer, teacher and writer. #soundandmusic #biotech #freeculture EAVI - Goldsmiths, University of London ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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Re: [PD] RjDj/ScenePlayer for iOS?
by Dan Wilcox 07 Mar '14

07 Mar '14

Yes, Iohannes, RjDj scenes work in PdParty. I have tested all of the scenes I have from years ago, including interactive ones which use the accelerometer like the bouncy scene. I do not support scenes generated by the now defunct rjc1000 elper app nor do I support the scene paging feature used in the rjdj intro scene, but AFAIK that's the only scene that used it. I would hope that other libpd based apps would adopt the same rjdj messaging standard so patches would work, at least, between PdParty & PdDroidParty. ---------------------- The following is not aimed at you, IOhannes, but at noone in particular… <begin rant> PdParty has been in beta since September 2013 and I've been talking loudly about it since spring of last year. Back then I said it would support RjDj scenes and even posted about my intentions when RjDj was removed from the app store in 2011. With the beta, I wrote a very detailed user guide that clearly states that it not only support RjDj scenes but also has all of the same rj objects and events ([#touch], [#accelerate], etc). At this point, it is clearly beyond a port of PdDroidParty as I have reimplemented *all* of the Pd-vanilla/iem guis in Obj-C & CoreGraphics. In fact, you can animate and change their color, etc on the fly like in the regular pd gui. My long term dream would be to add patch creation/editing but that's really contingent on getting some sort of gui helper layer into libpd as I have no desire to reverse engineer parts of the existing gui framework. I have put out beta calls more than once and have only had perhaps middling interest, with a few people saying they installed it, but far less people have signed up than I would have thought. (A thank you to those that have and bigger thank you to those that have provided feedback.) I recently was told that having to "sign up" for a beta testing service was "far too difficult" and I should just put it on the app store. I imagine those same people would complain on the app store when something that could have been tested in beta didn't work. The whole point of a beta is to get help finding bugs in a private manner from people who would know what to look for, not the general public or students trying to use it in a class. It's supposed to be a community effort to HELP ME put out a new platform app for FREE. Once on the app store, it should basically *just work* otherwise it will be uninstalled more quickly than the time it took to install it. Also, I was hoping that people would also help me make cool demo scenes & patches, but that hasn't happened either. All of this is after I've spent probably 2 months of full time unpaid solo work on PdParty in 2013. I could expect that people would in the very least show interest in this project and help me work on it for when I will basically put it out for free on the App Store. <end rant> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Joe White <white.joe4(a)gmail.com> > To: Chris McCormick <chris(a)mccormick.cx> > Cc: pd-list <pd-list(a)iem.at>, "IOhannes m zmölnig" <zmoelnig(a)iem.at> > Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 10:02:26 +0000 > Subject: Re: [PD] RjDj/ScenePlayer for iOS? > Hi IOhannes, > > Sorry I can't link directly to the right place but the user guide I linked > to previously mentions there is support for what you're looking for. > > Search for #touch on this page > https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty/blob/master/doc/PdParty_User_Guide.md > > Cheers, > Joe > > > On 3 March 2014 02:16, Chris McCormick <chris(a)mccormick.cx> wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Hi IOhannes, >> >> On 03/03/14 02:20, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote: >> > On 02/28/2014 02:41 PM, Chris McCormick wrote: >> >> PdDroidParty supports multitouch thanks to Muddu Kishan. >> > >> > i think i was unclear here: i know that PdDroidParty has >> > multi-touch support (as shown in the demo). >> > >> > but what i really meant was: raw access to (multiple) pointer(s), >> > like the "#touch" message in RdDj, >> >> No, PdDroidParty does not do that. Would be minimal to implement. If >> someone submitted a patch to add that I would definitely merge it. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Chris. >> > -- Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com

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Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading tables
by Ed Kelly 07 Mar '14

07 Mar '14

Hi Lists(s), I'm rewriting phasor~ and unifying it with metro so that a pulse is generated from the boundaries of each ramp - so that bars of music can be read using tabread~ objects with a sample-accurate metro. I'm sure someone will say this can already be done, but it has to be dropped into the Ninja Jamm patch, so there isn't really time to rewrite the rest of the patch. I don't fully understand the way phasor~ wraps, but I have the object firing out bar numbers correctly. I'm putting clocks in for 16ths and 24ths of the beat, initiated on each wrap. I need to minimise CPU, so what I want to know is this: Does phasor~ always start from 0 and go to 1, i.e. is there always a signal value of 0 at the start of the ramp and a signal value of 1 at the end? As I write this, my common sense tells me it should be "yes" but I want to make sure. I suppose I should just try it really... Cheers, Ed Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new musix remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, for iPhone and iPad http://www.ninjajamm.com/ Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/

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Pd-list March 2014