Pd-list September 2009

pd-list@lists.iem.at

137 participants
191 discussions

Re: [PD] Pd-GUI-Rewrite test builds
by Ivica Ico Bukvic 04 Sep '09

04 Sep '09

Hans (and others), Attached is teh GUI rewrite I did this summer which also ports existing GUI into the tcl/tk 8.5 with following features: 1) code setup so that the 8.4 systems remain unaffected (this has not been fully tested) 2) new linux theme built on clam theme (not sure if this is its right name) 3) easy altering of the color scheme (see top of the script, currently configured to use Ubuntu human) 4) all Pd widgets ported to 8.5 5) new color picker widget for Linux (as tcl/tk has only 8.4 version of it so it makes it look ultra-ugly in comparison with others) with color saving options 6) other widget/style clean-up to make it more consistent 7) pd opens in minimial form (console closed) for performance mode 8) added console clean button (when in expanded view) 9) bunch of error-checking and bug-fixes (e.g. windows closing when done etc.) Needless to mention this thing looks a lot nicer to my eyes than the old version. Finally, my apologies for not forward you this sooner (blame it on summer vacation and then beginning of a new semester if you like :-) Let me know if you have any questions. Best wishes, Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Composition, Music Technology Director, DISIS Interactive Sound & Intermedia Studio Assistant Co-Director, CCTAD CHCI, CS, and Art (by courtesy) Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, VA 24061-0240 (540) 231-6139 (540) 231-5034 (fax) ico.bukvic.net

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pd crash oddity (and a workaround)
by Ivica Ico Bukvic 04 Sep '09

04 Sep '09

Greetings all, It has come to my attention recently that when the following conditions are true, Pd (pd-extended 0.41.4 with custom patches) freezes (this is on Ubuntu 9.04 Linux with custom 2.26.29 rt kernel): 1) a low-power cpu (in this case Atom 1.6GHz) is using ondemand cpu governor, thus in this case running for the most part at 800MHz 2) jackd is started with any kind of settings (including any priority level from default(0) to 89 and even -Z option) 3) pd is started and auto-connects to jack 4) a more complex patch is opened (not sure what the exact metrics for this is, but the patch in question is simply a GUI element that has bunch of sliders and is embedded as an abstraction into the canvas) When this happens, more often than not Pd freezes when opening the patch requiring forceful shutdown. When ran from command line, Pd outputs pd watchdog warning as well as zombified notification, even though sometimes it continues without any observable problems. Yet, the -Z option on the Jack side does nothing to abate this. I tried disabling SIGHUP in the s_watchdog.c and recompiling Pd but this has not had much of an effect on this either. Among ugly workarounds we have: 1) start pd without having it connect to jack, then load the patch (which works always fine when pd is not connected to jack while loading it), and then manually connect to jack. Of course, this also means that every time you need to unload the patch and load a new one, you need to change audio driver to something other than jack, then load the patch, and then reconnect. Having jack connection even if audio is not being computed still freezes just the same. 2) separate gui part from audio and run 2 instances of Pd. This is however very confusing as in Gnome one has a difficult time distinguishing which pd is which, particularly since window locations for both instances are initially the same. This also adds overhead in maintaining the patches (e.g. using MIDI/OSC/network packets to exchange data between two instances, or some other ugly workaround). What did work, however (at least so far), and seemed so far the least "ugly" solution is having cpu run at full-speed or using performance governor for cpufreq scaling. In this case, the problem does not occur and the patch loads just fine (although this may end-up being a problem for a humongous patch that may tax the cpu even at full speed--no idea if this is the case). I thought initially that this may have to do with the governor being too conservative with ramping-up of the cpu speed (meaning the processes would get too starved before the cpu spikes thus causing unexpected results during the loading of the patch while pd's jack backend is running), but adjustments to this setting through the /proc system made no difference so I suspect this is not the case (although it could be also the issue of how often the cpu usage is being polled by cpufreq which is something I did not mess with). So, the long story short, to streamline average user experience, one could have a script that qjackctl can run at start and shutdown that automatically adjusts cpu governor. One way to do this is to install cpufrequtils (sudo apt-get -y cpufrequtils) and then manually give SUID permissions to /usr/bin/cpufreq-set (sudo chmod 7455 /usr/bin/cpufreq-set). This is mainly since it appears that cpufreq-selector appears to hang (it has apparently done so since Intrepid), making it unwieldy for this purpose. As an alternative, one could use cpufreqd which is not used in Ubuntu by default and which allows application-specific ramping but since I wanted to keep system as close to the out-of-box experience as possible (and avoid possibly breaking the gnome cpufreq applet and/or altering default permissions installed by the cpufrequtils), I resorted to a simple c implementation in hope that would make it hopefully safer than a SUID shell script. For those who care, below is the ugly code in all its glory: cpufreq4jack.c ===================BEGIN====================== main(int argc, char** argv) { setuid(0); if (argc == 1 || argc > 1 && argv[1][0] == '0') { system("sh -c \"echo ondemand > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor\""); } else if (argc > 1 && argv[1][0] == '1') { system("sh -c \"echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor\""); } } =====================END===================== Compile the code with "gcc cpufreq4jack.c -o cpufreq4jack" Then adjust its permissions: sudo chown root:root cpufrea4jack sudo chmod 7455 cpufreq4jack Now you can bury cpufreq4jack executable somewhere in the /usr/bin/ folder (or somewhere safer if necessary). The last step is to adjust qjackctl's options (found on the "options" tab) by adding "cpufreq4jack 1" at start time, and "cpufreq4jack 0" at shutdown and voila! All this said, I am wondering (if this is indeed the case here) why is GUI still so strongly tied to the underlying engine in Pd. Couldn't the two be more separate so that one does not have to deal with these kinds of problems and/or ugly hacks like running 2 Pd instances concurrently? Any thoughts/ideas/improvement suggestions are most welcome... Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Composition, Music Technology Director, DISIS Interactive Sound & Intermedia Studio Assistant Co-Director, CCTAD CHCI, CS, and Art (by courtesy) Virginia Tech Dept. of Music - 0240 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-6139 (540) 231-5034 (fax) ico(a)vt.edu http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/bukvic/

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Re: [PD] Ubuntu. PD, Pulseaudio problems
by Marco Donnarumma 04 Sep '09

04 Sep '09

Hi, i had similar problems on Jaunty and i solved everything with this tutorial: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1130384 it's pretty complete. On my machine every application uses now Pulseaudio mixer, except Pd which makes happily use of Jack. Starting qjackctl from terminal (before using pd) terminate automatically Pulseaudio - avoiding *snd_pcm_open (output): Device or resource busy*. Once you close jack Pulseaudio will be initialize again automatically when another application ask for it. hope this help.. M > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:40:48 -0000 (AZOST) > From: gnd(a)itchybit.org > Subject: [PD] Ubuntu. PD, Pulseaudio problems > To: pd-list(a)iem.at > Message-ID: <62317.92.52.2.85.1252014048.squirrel(a)mail.itchybit.org> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > > hello, > > im using Ubuntu Jaunty and have problems with sound in PD 0.41.4-extended > when using simultaneously Firefox and/or Audacious. > > If i start PD sooner then firefox and audacious, they dont make any sounds > but sound in pd works ok. If i start PD later, firefox and audacious work > fine, but sound in PD gets stuck with: > snd_pcm_open (output): Device or resource busy (in the shell) > audio I/O stuck... closing audio (in pd console) > > Both FF and Audacious are using the pulseaudio server. I tried to create a > /etc/asound.conf, to create a new device: > > pcm.pulse { > type pulse > } > ctl.pulse { > type pulse > } > pcm.!default { > type pulse > } > ctl.!default { > type pulse > } > > and use it with pd -alsa -alsaadd pulse, but the audio output in pd still > doesnt work when running some other sound applications. When running pd > alone like this, the sound is severely garbled and after a while it hangs > the same... > > Is there some normal way how to handle this ? I mean it should not be a > problem using several application at once but apparently pd has some > problems with it.. > > Thanks for any advices.. > > > gnd/ > -- Marco Donnarumma aka The !S.A.D! Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer - Roma, IT LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://www.flxer.net EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net

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Pd in Lithuanian
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 04 Sep '09

04 Sep '09

Anyone read Lithuanian? There is some discussion of Pure Data here: http://www.lrytas.lt/-12505839701250116970-menininkai-kviečiami-kurti-muzik… m .hc ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either change them, or perish. -William Carlos Williams

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another dynamic patching question
by Phil Stone 03 Sep '09

03 Sep '09

Hi again, I'm happily creating subpatches and filling them with dynamic subpatches (thanks again, Jonathan), but now I'm stuck on something more subtle. I'm doing something like this: [b] | [symbol G] | [; pd-exp-$1 msg 20 235 /analysis/level/$1; ( to dynamically add a [/analysis/level/G ( message box to subpatch 'exp-G'. However, what I really want that message box to say is: [/analysis/level/G $1( so I can do something useful with that message. How do I get '$1' into that message box, dynamically? Phil

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Portuguese dictionary uploaded
by João Pais 03 Sep '09

03 Sep '09

Just to say that I uploaded pt.po to https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=browse&group_id=55736&atid=478072. (that was the link in http://puredata.info/dev/HowToTranslatePd. Read the comments, though. Some things are missing. JoÃ£o Pais -- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmpais(a)googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp

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pd-gui-rewrite news: undo, cut/copy/paste, and windows!
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 03 Sep '09

03 Sep '09

http://puredata.info/dev/PdGuiRewrite Just a status update on the pd-gui-rewrite. There is now undo again, and cut/copy/paste inside of object and message boxes should work on all platforms Also, things build on Windows, both in Cygwin and MinGW. Cygwin is the easiest way if you are starting from scratch. The instructions are in the above wiki page. .hc ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. - David Zicarelli

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dynamic subpatch creation
by Phil Stone 03 Sep '09

03 Sep '09

Hello all, I'm playing with dynamic object creation, and so far have figured out how to dynamically instantiate objects inside a subpatch and connect them up. Now I'm trying to dynamically create subpatches inside of that subpatch, and I thought I could do this by sending "canvas...."/ "restore..." messages to the subpatch in the appropriate order. When I try this, I crash Pd. Now, it may be that I'm not forming the messages correctly, but before I wander down that potentially-primrose path of debugging, I'm wondering if what I'm doing is possible at all. This is the message I'm trying to send when Pd crashes ($1 contains the subpatch's name -- I know this is correct from earlier experiments that didn't use canvas/restore): ; $1 canvas 5 5 362 348 f_instance 0; $1 obj 29 86 routeOSC /name; $1 obj 29 111 routeOSC /f /q; $1 obj 22 160 bp~; $1 obj 22 195 *~ 0.0002; $1 obj 22 224 env~ 8192; $1 obj 22 252 int; $1 msg 22 278 /fout/lev/name pd-1010-dfb; $1 connect 1 0 6 0; $1 connect 2 0 4 0; $1 connect 4 0 5 0; $1 connect 5 0 6 1; $1 connect 5 1 6 2; $1 connect 6 0 7 0; $1 connect 7 0 8 0; $1 connect 8 0 9 0; $1 connect 9 0 10 0; $1 connect 10 0 3 0; $1 restore 127 223 pd f_instance; So, is it the canvas/restore messages that are crashing Pd, and if so, is there some other way to dynamically created subpatches inside another subpatch? Thanks for reading, Phil Stone www.pkstonemusic.com

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customizing the new Pd GUI, some examples
by Jeff Sandys 02 Sep '09

02 Sep '09

Feature request for new GUI It would be nice to graphically render a patch and save it as a png or other graphic object without starting PD audio or GUI. This would be useful for documentation and web graphics. Could this be done as a customization that Hans mentioned or would it need to be in the main body GUI code? $ pd_render patch.pd patch.png Thanks, Jeff Sandys ____________________________________________________________ Top Healthcare Degrees Boost your health care career today with an online degree. Free info! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=b4u1WseE71QP-kFSb99uEAAAJz1Wz…

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Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors
by Jonathan Wilkes 02 Sep '09

02 Sep '09

--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > From: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors > To: "Hans-Christoph Steiner" <hans(a)at.or.at> > Cc: pd-list(a)iem.at > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:47 PM > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans(a)at.or.at> > wrote: > > > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans(a)at.or.at> > > Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch Authors > > To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <jancsika(a)yahoo.com> > > Cc: pd-list(a)iem.at > > Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 4:05 PM > > > > On Sep 1, 2009, at 12:41 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans(a)at.or.at> > > wrote: > > > > > >> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans(a)at.or.at> > > >> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd META: Author/Help Patch > > Authors > > >> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <jancsika(a)yahoo.com> > > >> Cc: pd-list(a)iem.at > > >> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:00 AM > > >> > > >> It is Pd, so I think we should at least make > an > > effort to > > >> make things easy to parse in Pd. I tried > > your parser > > >> using data that is probably closer to what > we > > might use, and > > >> it didn't work at all. If someone > > can get a > > >> Pd parser working that can handle the commas > well, > > then I > > >> would be OK using commas in the meta data > format. > > >> > > >> Here's my data: > > >> tags - pure data, frequency modulation, > synthesis > > > > > > Hi Hans, > > > I wouldn't expect my example > > to work as a general solution. If you > > > want a general solution, I'd be happy to take a > stab > > at it, but you > > > haven't said what you want Pd to do with the > data > > example you've provided > > > above. > > > > Ah, sorry, I thought you'd followed the object_db.tcl > > plugin discussion and the [pd META] discussion with > > Frank. Basically, the object_db.tcl plugin builds a > > multilevel menu for finding objects based on tags. > I'm > > am sure people will think of other uses for the > tags. > > Frank suggested using comma separated tags in his [pd > > REFERENCE] format, the PDDP group came to the > conclusion > > that the meta data should be easily parsable by Pd, > and I > > still think that's a good idea. > > > > So the idea is to have every help patch have a [pd > META] > > subpatch, and in it, have a comment with tags. > > > > .hc > > Oh, ok. I'll have a look at that discussion. > > -Jonathan Yes, I have seen this discussion. But I'm still confused: are commas a problem in tcl? If not, I still don't understand the problem (see attached).

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Pd-list September 2009