Pd-list August 2008

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101 participants
156 discussions

[PD-announce] piksel08 - code dreams :: REMINDER
by 220hex 11 Aug '08

11 Aug '08

<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>> **Piksel08: code dreams december 4-7 2008 Bergen, Norway How does code dream? What are the dreams of code? Piksel08 examines the other side of code, an alternative side to a hard-coded reality of work and play. Open hardware and free software project a utopic vision, yet exist within economies of capital, the dream factory of mainstream technology. Within the chance meeting of sewing machine and umbrella on the dissecting table, hardware and software are flattened. Piksel08: code dreams explores the dreams of this soft machine; bachelors coding for pleasure, reverse engineering paranoiac constructs of the real, automatic coding practice, soft hardware, and everyday magic. <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>> **open call: 1. Installations Projects related to the code dreams theme including but not restricted to: reverse engineering, soft hardware, code poetry, novel instruction sets, invisible exploration, ghosted computation... programmed by and running on free and open source software and/or open/DIY hardware. 2. Audiovisual performance Live art realised by the use of free and open source software. We specially encourage live coding and DIY hardware projects to apply. 3. Software/Hardware Innovative DIY hardware and audiovisual software tools or software art released under an open licence. <<<<<< Deadline - august 15. 2008 >>>>>> Please use the online submit form at: http://piksel.no/piksel08/subform.html or send documentation material - preferably as a URL to online documentation with images/video to piksel08 [AT] piksel [DOT] no <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>> **subsections: **real code real.co.[de][re] actively explores code which has strong effects on the real, constructing the world through prediction and description. The twelve hour real.co.[de][re] session will attempt the active construction of a working code model (of any form) which addresses a flattening of the distinction between software and hardware, to resolve a new political reference for real core code. **abstract code Abstract code is software whose results can be invisible, a software implementing different layers of action at the same time. Abstract code is a connection to parallel worlds, a poetic formula dealing with outer forces. Code is art, its action is subtile, effective, magic. procedural text maledictions, oracles, iambi, hymn, formula, refrains, hypnotic sentences, prayers, and other. <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>> Piksel is supported by the Municipality of Bergen, Arts Council Norway, Vestnorsk Filmsenter, Hordaland County Council and others. More info: http://piksel.no --- _______________________________________________ Pd-announce mailing list Pd-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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jack_transport from CVS
by Si Mills 11 Aug '08

11 Aug '08

HI I was interested this weekend to tryout [jack_transport] from "externals/tb/jack_transport" in the cvs repository. As there as no binary for OSX, it decided to embark on compiling the source, so I downloaded XCode 2.5 and the jack_transport package with a cvs client. There doesn't seem to be a ./configure file, only makefile. Is it missing something, or do I need to install additional libraries? I should point out that I have never built from source on osx, so I really don't have a clue what to do!! If someone has built this for OSx already that would be very helpful :-) or if someone could give me some helpful pointers that would be great. all the best * * * * * * Simon Mills :: Liquid Light :: E - simon(a)liquidlight.co.uk W - http://www.liquidlight.co.uk T - 00 44 (0)845 6 58 88 35 F - 00 44 (0)845 6 58 44 35 Confidentiality Notice: This message (and any associated files) is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, subject to copyright or constitutes a trade secret. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copying or distribution of this message, or files associated with this message, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately and delete the message. Thank you.

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reset a particle system
by marius schebella 11 Aug '08

11 Aug '08

hi, is it possible to reset a particle system? delete all existing particles and set all particles to age 0 and position 0. marius.

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Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd
by Andy Farnell 10 Aug '08

10 Aug '08

Hi Julian, Mark, Sorry for the slow reply, been afkb for a week. AFAICS there are really two problems here, which lead to an interesting third problem at their interface. Firstly let's deal with the bell sound. This long running thread should give you some food http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=152064 Within the synthetic model we have two sub-problems. The slender cylinder and free beam models both give rise to vibrational modes, namely 1) The bending modes 2) The circular modes For the mostpart it seems you can ignore the ring/circulars and just calculate those for the bending modes. But on top of that you need to incorporate an acoustic model for the hollow tube too if you want a nice realistic sound, so a fully open half wavelength pipe seems the trick, plus a 0.62R end correction. Metal will be very reflective. Chapter 4 of Olson will help you a lot, as will 3.9 of Benson. Combining these will dictate your method. With waveguide delays you could split the tube into sections and inject the vibrational energy at several point radiators on the inside of the tube at anti-nodes, but that's going to get complicated. Practical methods that come to mind are a bandpass filter acoustic section plus 1) pure additive from spectral analysis 2) FM Dave Bristow (I can't find the link now) wrote about bells and tubes and developed some very nice data for ratios etc. Maybe you can find that. Okay, so assume you have a bell sound.... Problem two is the macro model of the bell and string. It seems like a pedulum at first, but obviously it's more complex. You actually have a jointed pendulum with the lower part rigid and its mass distributed uniformly along its length. It's hung from a string you could assume has no mass. The reason I mention this because it takes us back to the start (creating the third problem) - how do you deal with excitations of the synthetic model? Where the bells collide makes a difference to the modes and the resulting sound. If their bottoms strike a glancing blow then you could assume an impulse at one end, but in reality the small angles involved lead to acute elastic collsions with multiple excitations. I think what would distinguish a *great* model is taking this into account. Give each bar some mass + length and calculate the turning moment around the COM when their bottoms hit. Seems like a great project and lots of fun. Look forward to hearing what you come up with. Andy On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 15:47:06 +0100 "Julian Brooks" <julian.brooks(a)virgin.net> wrote: > Hey Mark, > > Many thanks for this. > > I been reading up and scratching around at this for a bit without really > getting stuck in(got a couple of Eduardo Miranda's books, hear your doing > good things at Plymouth btw), not yet checked the Perry Cook book, will do > tho'. It's very helpful to get some concrete proposals instead of just > reading about various techniques, with no real knowledge of their possible > and well suited applications. > > My plan atm, is to get the gem/pmpd physical modelling side rolling first > (the visual framing is part of my mental/conceptual image of the piece), > then moving onto sound generation. After that, hopefully, the fun side of > composing will commence, finishing of (hopefully) with some input sensors. > > I guess what I'm saying is: I'm not quite up to this bit yet but soon come. > > Also aware that your time will be a lot tighter once term commences. > > Think this thread could have legs:) > > Thanks to all for weighing in, I was getting somewhat despondent about it. > > Got some stamina back, feeling a bit more plugged in. > > Cheers > > Jb > > -----Original Message----- > From: pd-list-bounces(a)iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces@iem.at] On Behalf Of > Mark Sexton > Sent: 08 August 2008 10:25 > To: pd-list(a)iem.at > Subject: [PD] physical modelling/general pd > > Hi Julian > Building a physical model of a wind chime might be easier than you think, if > you use modal or banded waveguide approaches to physical modelling rather > than the brute force approach of pmpd. > > If you think of the wind chimes should as stiff bars, banded waveguides > would be ideal and are much more computationally efficient to implement than > brute force approaches: a resonant filter and delay per mode you want to > synthesis. I'd recommend perhaps starting with a simple modal > implementation using filters and build up from there. This paper gives a > good introduction: > http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/publications/modalpaper.pdf > > > If you're not familiar with modal synthesis and banded waveguides there's > plenty of information online and Perry Cook's book gives a good overview of > a range of approaches to modelling. > http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~prc/AKPetersBook.htm > > Some starting hints if you want to go down this route: > > 1. Create an impulse: a buffer of noise or single sample impulse > 2. Feed this into perhaps 5 band pass IIR filters with a very narrow Q, > these will provide your resonant modes for each chime. > 3. The frequencies of these filters will probably be non-integer multiples > of the fundamental, eventually you can get these by analysing an actual wind > chime, but if you wanted to build a proof of concept now then these are > typical modes of an aluminium bar (you can find further modal frequency > ratios in the Csound manual): > [1, 2.756, 5.423, 8.988, 13.448, 18.680] > 4. Scale the outputs of each of the resonant filters as appropriate, this > should be straight forward once you've done an audio analysis of your wind > chime. > > At this point you have a simple resonating model of a wind chime. > > 5. Perhaps replace the impulse: you can remove the resonant components of > your wind chime recording and this will leave you with the original noise > impulse. Using this to trigger your model should help improve realism. > 6. Create a banded waveguide version, by adding feedback delays for each > mode. (have a read of this paper and a look at Fig. 4): > http://soundlab.cs.princeton.edu/publications/1999_icmc_bar.pdf > > There's a few further tweaks and improvements that can be done, but > something along these lines should give a good result, be fairly easy to > implement and run more efficiently than brute force. > > Happy to chat more on or off list on the physical model side or algorithmic > composition side, but you may find it easier than you thought once you get > going. > > > All the best > > Mark Sexton > Senior Lecturer > MSc Computational Sound > University of Portsmouth > > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:30:51 +0100 > > From: "Julian Brooks" <julian.brooks(a)virgin.net> > > Subject: [PD] physical modelling/general pd - mentor/tuition sought > > (money offered) > > To: <pd-list(a)iem.at> > > Message-ID: <000001c8f881$0d514a40$27f3dec0$@brooks@virgin.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I have a 12 month project as part of a masters degree, where I wish to > build > > a physical model of a wind chime. I then want to use the interface to > play > > some of my indeterminate compositions. I was going to attempt it for my > > undergraduate degree but realised that it was far too complex for the > > available time that I had then. > > > > > > > > I have been using pd for a few years now, list lurking, working through > > basic examples, building simple tools, using other peoples patches etc. > But > > this is too complex for me to do on my own. At my uni there isn't anyone > > with better skills than me and I don't know of any local fellow patchers. > > > > > > > > Now as a musician, when I need to up my skills, I will look to find some > > lessons when I have got as far as I can on my own. > > > > > > > > So here goes... > > > > > > > > Is there anyone with an hour a week to spare who can offer some > > mentoring/tuition for what we can deem to be the 'going rate'. I am more > > than happy to do this remotely/online, I'm sure there is a way we can work > > it out. There would be full credit given of course. > > > > > > > > Pmpd seems like the way to go with this. I have worked through the > > examples, and, although I have my eye on what examples I would presume to > be > > the best starting points, I'm struggling to get started. The physical > > modelling is where I first need to start but there's loads of pd stuff I > > would like to be able to work through with someone, so this could be a (me > > love you)longtime regular small money earner, if anyone's interested. > > > > > > > > I am in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK, by the way. Any pd'ers local, > > give us a shout. > > > > > > > > Best wishes to all, > > > > > > > > Jb > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Use the source

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Keyname Object Changed?
by Greg Surges 10 Aug '08

10 Aug '08

Hi all, First, pd-extended 0.40.3 is all-around great. Seems like lots of hard work went into it. So thanks to the people who worked on that. Second, has the vanilla keyname object changed? Specifically, does it now output "Space" instead of " " when the spacebar is used? Is there a work-around to get the " " back? Thanks, - Greg -- http://www.uwm.edu/~gssurges/

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Calling Mac OS X 10.3 Panther users! Please test new release!
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 09 Aug '08

09 Aug '08

Hey, I no longer have access to a Mac OS X 10.3 Panther machine, but I would like to make a working Pd-extended release for that OS. If you are running 10.3/Panther, please test this version and let me know if it works for you: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/pure-data/Pd-0.40.3-extended- macosx103.dmg .hc ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- All information should be free. - the hacker ethic

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Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd
by Jack 09 Aug '08

09 Aug '08

I'm not an expert in sound. You have to ask to other people on the list for this problem. I only use Pd with simple sound synthesis in my wind chime example. Have a look to Andy's website, it could help : http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/ This one seems nice for you : http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/sounds/effect-elastic-collisions.mp3 I can help with GEM and PMPD. ++ Jack Le 9 août 08 à 14:46, Julian Brooks a écrit : > Hey Jack, > > That's cool with me. Out of curiosity, what did you use for the sound > generation of your chimes, samples or code - csound/pd/a.n.other? > > Jb > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jack [mailto:jack@rybn.org] > Sent: 09 August 2008 13:16 > To: Julian Brooks > Cc: pd-list > Subject: Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd > > > Le 8 août 08 à 14:46, Julian Brooks a écrit : > >> Hi Jack, >> >> Well I was surprised that someone else hadn't tried it already, to be >> honest. >> >> Congratulations, respect, and thanks for showing me that it is indeed >> possible. >> >> If you don't mind I would like to be able to email you with >> problems that I >> think you can help/give advise for. > I think the better way is to post on the Pd list because i'm not > always available to answer (lot of work sometimes) and a lot of > people are good users of this programming language. The list exists > for this sort of problem ;) > You have a lot of time to realize your patch, i think after 12 months > you will have a good patch for your wind chime. All you need is to > know PD/GEM/PMPD. I will be happy to help you and to answer to you on > the list like a lot of other people. > ++ > > Jack > > >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Jb >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pd-list-bounces(a)iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces@iem.at] On >> Behalf Of >> Jack >> Sent: 08 August 2008 12:38 >> To: cyrille henry >> Cc: pd-list(a)iem.at; Mark Sexton >> Subject: Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd >> >> Hello Julian, >> I have done a wind chime there is 2-3 years ago with PD/GEM/PMPD. I >> used PHP to get on the web the value of direction and force of wind >> in differents cities in Europe. >> Here a link for a video without sound (i remove it from the export) : >> http://djrayban2.free.fr/Movie/windChime.mov >> ++ >> >> Jack >> >> Le 8 août 08 à 12:16, cyrille henry a écrit : >> >>> hello, >>> >>> >>> Mark Sexton a écrit : >>>> Hi Julian >>>> Building a physical model of a wind chime might be easier than you >>>> think, if >>>> you use modal or banded waveguide approaches to physical modelling >>>> rather >>>> than the brute force approach of pmpd. >>> >>> pmpd aim to model the movement, not the sound. >>> the hamer and the tube of a simple wind chime could be modeled with >>> about 10 masses. >>> To create a physical model of the sound is very different. >>> but you need both to model the wind chime. >>> >>> Cyrille >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> If you think of the wind chimes should as stiff bars, banded >>>> waveguides >>>> would be ideal and are much more computationally efficient to >>>> implement than >>>> brute force approaches: a resonant filter and delay per mode you >>>> want to >>>> synthesis. I'd recommend perhaps starting with a simple modal >>>> implementation using filters and build up from there. This paper >>>> gives a >>>> good introduction: >>>> http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/publications/modalpaper.pdf >>>> >>>> >>>> If you're not familiar with modal synthesis and banded waveguides >>>> there's >>>> plenty of information online and Perry Cook's book gives a good >>>> overview of >>>> a range of approaches to modelling. >>>> http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~prc/AKPetersBook.htm >>>> >>>> Some starting hints if you want to go down this route: >>>> >>>> 1. Create an impulse: a buffer of noise or single sample impulse >>>> 2. Feed this into perhaps 5 band pass IIR filters with a very >>>> narrow Q, >>>> these will provide your resonant modes for each chime. >>>> 3. The frequencies of these filters will probably be non-integer >>>> multiples >>>> of the fundamental, eventually you can get these by analysing an >>>> actual wind >>>> chime, but if you wanted to build a proof of concept now then >>>> these are >>>> typical modes of an aluminium bar (you can find further modal >>>> frequency >>>> ratios in the Csound manual): >>>> [1, 2.756, 5.423, 8.988, 13.448, 18.680] >>>> 4. Scale the outputs of each of the resonant filters as >>>> appropriate, this >>>> should be straight forward once you've done an audio analysis of >>>> your wind >>>> chime. >>>> >>>> At this point you have a simple resonating model of a wind chime. >>>> >>>> 5. Perhaps replace the impulse: you can remove the resonant >>>> components of >>>> your wind chime recording and this will leave you with the >>>> original noise >>>> impulse. Using this to trigger your model should help improve >>>> realism. >>>> 6. Create a banded waveguide version, by adding feedback delays >>>> for each >>>> mode. (have a read of this paper and a look at Fig. 4): >>>> http://soundlab.cs.princeton.edu/publications/1999_icmc_bar.pdf >>>> >>>> There's a few further tweaks and improvements that can be done, but >>>> something along these lines should give a good result, be fairly >>>> easy to >>>> implement and run more efficiently than brute force. >>>> >>>> Happy to chat more on or off list on the physical model side or >>>> algorithmic >>>> composition side, but you may find it easier than you thought once >>>> you get >>>> going. >>>> >>>> >>>> All the best >>>> >>>> Mark Sexton >>>> Senior Lecturer >>>> MSc Computational Sound >>>> University of Portsmouth >>>> >>>>> Message: 2 >>>>> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:30:51 +0100 >>>>> From: "Julian Brooks" <julian.brooks(a)virgin.net> >>>>> Subject: [PD] physical modelling/general pd - mentor/tuition >>>>> sought >>>>> (money offered) >>>>> To: <pd-list(a)iem.at> >>>>> Message-ID: <000001c8f881$0d514a40$27f3dec0$@brooks@virgin.net> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have a 12 month project as part of a masters degree, where I >>>>> wish to build >>>>> a physical model of a wind chime. I then want to use the >>>>> interface to play >>>>> some of my indeterminate compositions. I was going to attempt it >>>>> for my >>>>> undergraduate degree but realised that it was far too complex for >>>>> the >>>>> available time that I had then. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have been using pd for a few years now, list lurking, working >>>>> through >>>>> basic examples, building simple tools, using other peoples >>>>> patches etc. But >>>>> this is too complex for me to do on my own. At my uni there >>>>> isn't anyone >>>>> with better skills than me and I don't know of any local fellow >>>>> patchers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Now as a musician, when I need to up my skills, I will look to >>>>> find some >>>>> lessons when I have got as far as I can on my own. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So here goes... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Is there anyone with an hour a week to spare who can offer some >>>>> mentoring/tuition for what we can deem to be the 'going rate'. I >>>>> am more >>>>> than happy to do this remotely/online, I'm sure there is a way we >>>>> can work >>>>> it out. There would be full credit given of course. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pmpd seems like the way to go with this. I have worked through >>>>> the >>>>> examples, and, although I have my eye on what examples I would >>>>> presume to be >>>>> the best starting points, I'm struggling to get started. The >>>>> physical >>>>> modelling is where I first need to start but there's loads of pd >>>>> stuff I >>>>> would like to be able to work through with someone, so this could >>>>> be a (me >>>>> love you)longtime regular small money earner, if anyone's >>>>> interested. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I am in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK, by the way. Any >>>>> pd'ers local, >>>>> give us a shout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best wishes to all, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jb >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ >>>> listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ >>> listinfo/pd-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >

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Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd
by marius schebella 09 Aug '08

09 Aug '08

Julian Brooks wrote: > My plan atm, is to get the gem/pmpd physical modelling side rolling first > (the visual framing is part of my mental/conceptual image of the piece), if you are talking about rigid body interaction, you may also consider using pyode. frank gave some examples on last year's pdconv in montreal http://artengine.ca/~catalogue-pd/8-Barknecht.pdf. marius.

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physical modelling/general pd
by Mark Sexton 09 Aug '08

09 Aug '08

Hi Julian Building a physical model of a wind chime might be easier than you think, if you use modal or banded waveguide approaches to physical modelling rather than the brute force approach of pmpd. If you think of the wind chimes should as stiff bars, banded waveguides would be ideal and are much more computationally efficient to implement than brute force approaches: a resonant filter and delay per mode you want to synthesis. I'd recommend perhaps starting with a simple modal implementation using filters and build up from there. This paper gives a good introduction: http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/publications/modalpaper.pdf If you're not familiar with modal synthesis and banded waveguides there's plenty of information online and Perry Cook's book gives a good overview of a range of approaches to modelling. http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~prc/AKPetersBook.htm Some starting hints if you want to go down this route: 1. Create an impulse: a buffer of noise or single sample impulse 2. Feed this into perhaps 5 band pass IIR filters with a very narrow Q, these will provide your resonant modes for each chime. 3. The frequencies of these filters will probably be non-integer multiples of the fundamental, eventually you can get these by analysing an actual wind chime, but if you wanted to build a proof of concept now then these are typical modes of an aluminium bar (you can find further modal frequency ratios in the Csound manual): [1, 2.756, 5.423, 8.988, 13.448, 18.680] 4. Scale the outputs of each of the resonant filters as appropriate, this should be straight forward once you've done an audio analysis of your wind chime. At this point you have a simple resonating model of a wind chime. 5. Perhaps replace the impulse: you can remove the resonant components of your wind chime recording and this will leave you with the original noise impulse. Using this to trigger your model should help improve realism. 6. Create a banded waveguide version, by adding feedback delays for each mode. (have a read of this paper and a look at Fig. 4): http://soundlab.cs.princeton.edu/publications/1999_icmc_bar.pdf There's a few further tweaks and improvements that can be done, but something along these lines should give a good result, be fairly easy to implement and run more efficiently than brute force. Happy to chat more on or off list on the physical model side or algorithmic composition side, but you may find it easier than you thought once you get going. All the best Mark Sexton Senior Lecturer MSc Computational Sound University of Portsmouth > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:30:51 +0100 > From: "Julian Brooks" <julian.brooks(a)virgin.net> > Subject: [PD] physical modelling/general pd - mentor/tuition sought > (money offered) > To: <pd-list(a)iem.at> > Message-ID: <000001c8f881$0d514a40$27f3dec0$@brooks@virgin.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi all, > > > > I have a 12 month project as part of a masters degree, where I wish to build > a physical model of a wind chime. I then want to use the interface to play > some of my indeterminate compositions. I was going to attempt it for my > undergraduate degree but realised that it was far too complex for the > available time that I had then. > > > > I have been using pd for a few years now, list lurking, working through > basic examples, building simple tools, using other peoples patches etc. But > this is too complex for me to do on my own. At my uni there isn't anyone > with better skills than me and I don't know of any local fellow patchers. > > > > Now as a musician, when I need to up my skills, I will look to find some > lessons when I have got as far as I can on my own. > > > > So here goes... > > > > Is there anyone with an hour a week to spare who can offer some > mentoring/tuition for what we can deem to be the 'going rate'. I am more > than happy to do this remotely/online, I'm sure there is a way we can work > it out. There would be full credit given of course. > > > > Pmpd seems like the way to go with this. I have worked through the > examples, and, although I have my eye on what examples I would presume to be > the best starting points, I'm struggling to get started. The physical > modelling is where I first need to start but there's loads of pd stuff I > would like to be able to work through with someone, so this could be a (me > love you)longtime regular small money earner, if anyone's interested. > > > > I am in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK, by the way. Any pd'ers local, > give us a shout. > > > > Best wishes to all, > > > > Jb >

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Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd
by Jack 09 Aug '08

09 Aug '08

Le 8 août 08 à 14:46, Julian Brooks a écrit : > Hi Jack, > > Well I was surprised that someone else hadn't tried it already, to be > honest. > > Congratulations, respect, and thanks for showing me that it is indeed > possible. > > If you don't mind I would like to be able to email you with > problems that I > think you can help/give advise for. I think the better way is to post on the Pd list because i'm not always available to answer (lot of work sometimes) and a lot of people are good users of this programming language. The list exists for this sort of problem ;) You have a lot of time to realize your patch, i think after 12 months you will have a good patch for your wind chime. All you need is to know PD/GEM/PMPD. I will be happy to help you and to answer to you on the list like a lot of other people. ++ Jack > > Best wishes, > > Jb > > -----Original Message----- > From: pd-list-bounces(a)iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces@iem.at] On > Behalf Of > Jack > Sent: 08 August 2008 12:38 > To: cyrille henry > Cc: pd-list(a)iem.at; Mark Sexton > Subject: Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd > > Hello Julian, > I have done a wind chime there is 2-3 years ago with PD/GEM/PMPD. I > used PHP to get on the web the value of direction and force of wind > in differents cities in Europe. > Here a link for a video without sound (i remove it from the export) : > http://djrayban2.free.fr/Movie/windChime.mov > ++ > > Jack > > Le 8 août 08 à 12:16, cyrille henry a écrit : > >> hello, >> >> >> Mark Sexton a écrit : >>> Hi Julian >>> Building a physical model of a wind chime might be easier than you >>> think, if >>> you use modal or banded waveguide approaches to physical modelling >>> rather >>> than the brute force approach of pmpd. >> >> pmpd aim to model the movement, not the sound. >> the hamer and the tube of a simple wind chime could be modeled with >> about 10 masses. >> To create a physical model of the sound is very different. >> but you need both to model the wind chime. >> >> Cyrille >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> If you think of the wind chimes should as stiff bars, banded >>> waveguides >>> would be ideal and are much more computationally efficient to >>> implement than >>> brute force approaches: a resonant filter and delay per mode you >>> want to >>> synthesis. I'd recommend perhaps starting with a simple modal >>> implementation using filters and build up from there. This paper >>> gives a >>> good introduction: >>> http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/publications/modalpaper.pdf >>> >>> >>> If you're not familiar with modal synthesis and banded waveguides >>> there's >>> plenty of information online and Perry Cook's book gives a good >>> overview of >>> a range of approaches to modelling. >>> http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~prc/AKPetersBook.htm >>> >>> Some starting hints if you want to go down this route: >>> >>> 1. Create an impulse: a buffer of noise or single sample impulse >>> 2. Feed this into perhaps 5 band pass IIR filters with a very >>> narrow Q, >>> these will provide your resonant modes for each chime. >>> 3. The frequencies of these filters will probably be non-integer >>> multiples >>> of the fundamental, eventually you can get these by analysing an >>> actual wind >>> chime, but if you wanted to build a proof of concept now then >>> these are >>> typical modes of an aluminium bar (you can find further modal >>> frequency >>> ratios in the Csound manual): >>> [1, 2.756, 5.423, 8.988, 13.448, 18.680] >>> 4. Scale the outputs of each of the resonant filters as >>> appropriate, this >>> should be straight forward once you've done an audio analysis of >>> your wind >>> chime. >>> >>> At this point you have a simple resonating model of a wind chime. >>> >>> 5. Perhaps replace the impulse: you can remove the resonant >>> components of >>> your wind chime recording and this will leave you with the >>> original noise >>> impulse. Using this to trigger your model should help improve >>> realism. >>> 6. Create a banded waveguide version, by adding feedback delays >>> for each >>> mode. (have a read of this paper and a look at Fig. 4): >>> http://soundlab.cs.princeton.edu/publications/1999_icmc_bar.pdf >>> >>> There's a few further tweaks and improvements that can be done, but >>> something along these lines should give a good result, be fairly >>> easy to >>> implement and run more efficiently than brute force. >>> >>> Happy to chat more on or off list on the physical model side or >>> algorithmic >>> composition side, but you may find it easier than you thought once >>> you get >>> going. >>> >>> >>> All the best >>> >>> Mark Sexton >>> Senior Lecturer >>> MSc Computational Sound >>> University of Portsmouth >>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:30:51 +0100 >>>> From: "Julian Brooks" <julian.brooks(a)virgin.net> >>>> Subject: [PD] physical modelling/general pd - mentor/tuition sought >>>> (money offered) >>>> To: <pd-list(a)iem.at> >>>> Message-ID: <000001c8f881$0d514a40$27f3dec0$@brooks@virgin.net> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I have a 12 month project as part of a masters degree, where I >>>> wish to build >>>> a physical model of a wind chime. I then want to use the >>>> interface to play >>>> some of my indeterminate compositions. I was going to attempt it >>>> for my >>>> undergraduate degree but realised that it was far too complex for >>>> the >>>> available time that I had then. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I have been using pd for a few years now, list lurking, working >>>> through >>>> basic examples, building simple tools, using other peoples >>>> patches etc. But >>>> this is too complex for me to do on my own. At my uni there >>>> isn't anyone >>>> with better skills than me and I don't know of any local fellow >>>> patchers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Now as a musician, when I need to up my skills, I will look to >>>> find some >>>> lessons when I have got as far as I can on my own. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> So here goes... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Is there anyone with an hour a week to spare who can offer some >>>> mentoring/tuition for what we can deem to be the 'going rate'. I >>>> am more >>>> than happy to do this remotely/online, I'm sure there is a way we >>>> can work >>>> it out. There would be full credit given of course. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Pmpd seems like the way to go with this. I have worked through the >>>> examples, and, although I have my eye on what examples I would >>>> presume to be >>>> the best starting points, I'm struggling to get started. The >>>> physical >>>> modelling is where I first need to start but there's loads of pd >>>> stuff I >>>> would like to be able to work through with someone, so this could >>>> be a (me >>>> love you)longtime regular small money earner, if anyone's >>>> interested. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I am in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK, by the way. Any >>>> pd'ers local, >>>> give us a shout. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best wishes to all, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jb >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ >>> listinfo/pd-list >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ >> listinfo/pd-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >

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Pd-list August 2008