Pd-list January 2008

pd-list@lists.iem.at

133 participants
232 discussions

text based pd patching
by alex 12 Jan '08

12 Jan '08

Hi pders Here's a way of PD patching in plaintext: *------------------------* | .--------. \ .-x--------. | osc~ 5 | * | osc~ 500 | `-x------' | `-x--------' | | | .-x------. | | | *~ 300 | | | `-x------' | *---* | | | *------------* .-x------. | *~ 0.2 | `-x------' | * |\ | * | | .-x-x--. | dac~ | `------' http://doc.gold.ac.uk/~ma503am/alex/textual-patching/ You can define pd objects and connect them together with ASCII syntax. Layout is preserved as well. Much like in ghostbusters, you can't cross the lines, and there isn't syntax for different box types (messages and numbers). Fixing this would be short work, but I ran out of train journey :) There is a particular syntax for drawing the lines. You use - for going left and right, | for going up and down and \ and / for going diagonally. To change direction or fork a wire you have to place a * . Mark inlets and outlets with x . alex

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poor performance when saving an abstraction when many copies are loaded in a patch
by matteo sisti sette 12 Jan '08

12 Jan '08

> Otherwise, think about converting some of the abstractions to subpatches Please don't interprete what I'm gonna say as sarchastic or offensive to whom wrote the above sentence (which however has been suggested by more than one person). Just take it as a general and (hopefully) constructive discussion about PD issues... Would you ever say to someone writing an application in C++: "Think about converting some of your functions to macros"??? That is just not an option. And converting abstractions to subpatches is much more limiting than that. Inefficiencies in handling a great number of instances of abstractions are a great obstacle to applying "good" programming practices to PD patches. Using and reusing a great number of abstractions with many many levels of nesting is the only reasonable way (I can think of) of developing a large, complex, scalable, reusable "application" in PD. This reminds me about a discussion I lounched in the list some months ago about whether PD can be considered an environment for "production" development, or just a tool for "prototyping". I do use it in production, that is I use it to develop "applications" that have to be used on stage, and I don't rewrite them in any other language: I just develop them in PD and run them in PD. And that causes me a lot of frustration because I often find out that PD starts to be somewhat unstable and unreliable when things get "big". At least (or especially) when GUI is involved. Note that I do take all the care to make sure that cpu or memory usage does not increase more than it should when making things "bigger" (e.g. always switch~ing off any audio processing stuff that is not really being "used", etc.) I would love to provide examples or specific information useful for debugging, but when I get that kind of problems, I've never been able to isolate them. In one case I had a big, complex, structured patch with a lot of stuff inside. Just adding one more instance of an abstraction there were tens of instances of (and the whole patch worked great up to that moment), made it crash on open. Now a practical question: it has been mentioned that PD manages the patch structure with linked lists which make it inefficient in renewing it when saving an abstraction that is used many times. Does this linked-list implementation cause other efficiency issues that may affect the working of things during the normal flowing of data (i.e. running the patch) or is it "only" an issue when saving? -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistisette(a)gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com

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Re: [PD] Wiimote for OS X
by Phil Stone 12 Jan '08

12 Jan '08

Luke and giucant, I set up a PayPal account for this email address. Do you need any other info? Phil

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how to build externals in xcode?
by Andreas Jäger 12 Jan '08

12 Jan '08

Hi everybody, I'm trying to build externals (for Mac OS X) in Xcode. Since I couldn't find much information on how to do that, it's basically just trial and - most of all - error. For the start, I tried to build the helloworld-Example from the external-tutorial. There are two main problems (probably related): 1. When I'm just trying to compile helloworld.c (alternatively main.c - which one ist right?), I get 6 or 7 error messages about some function calls that I can't determine 2. When using the linker flag "-undefined dynamic_lookup" I can compile the code without problems (maybe I'm just overriding them?). But after copiing the resulting helloworld.pd_darwin (is the name right?) pd crashes right after I tried to make a helloworld-Object. Maybe it'll help if I give you some short explanation of what I did at all: 1. I built an Xcode project from the "standard tool" template 2. I copied the helloworld-code into helloworld.c 3. I imported m_pd.h into the project 4. I added the "-undefined dynamic_lookup" flag 5. I set the product name to helloworld.pd_darwin 6. I compiled the code and copied the resulting helloworld.pd_darwin to/Library/Pd To complete the list: I'm using pd extended 0.39.3 on Mac OS X Tiger. Any ideas what's wrong? Thanks a lot in advance, Andreas

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gridflow #record
by olsen wolf 12 Jan '08

12 Jan '08

hi anyone used gridflows #record? playback of the file in gridflow itself works but when i'm trying to play the file in mplayer i get the error message: "hmblck: image size inconsistent with data size." & mencoder neither likes to reencode it... thanks for help & greets olsen -- Planet Pluto bleibt!

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estimating cpu usage
by matteo sisti sette 11 Jan '08

11 Jan '08

Hi, I wish I could estimate "cpu usage" (in terms I will define later) from within the patch, in order to have some part of the patch adapt to it and work with higher "resolution" when more "free" cpu power is available, and less when the cpu load is higher. For instance, I would like to have some vu-meters to monitor various signal levels, but vu-meters are expensive and I must avoid audio dropouts, so I'd like my monitors to be less accurate when I need to save cpu power, and more accurate when they can. So, what do I mean with "cpu usage"... Suppose I could have a bang when a DSP cycle is started, and a bang when the same DSP cycle is complete: by sending those bangs to a [realtime] I could measure the interval and divide it by the teorical duration of a DSP block (i.e. 64/44100*1000 milliseconds): that would give me an estimation (however reliable) of the percentage of block time that is actually spent in computing audio data. This would be enough for me to start trying out something. Any idea of how to do that? I know [bang~] gives a bang at the end of each DSP cycle, but how to get a bang at the beginning of the cycle? Any other suggestion? Thanks in advance m. -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistisette(a)gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com

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gridflow video playback error
by olsen wolf 11 Jan '08

11 Jan '08

salü i just got a strange behaviour on playback of video in gridflow. on my laptop it works without problemas but on my workstation the following error occurs: error: RuntimeError: unknown suffix '.mov' /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/gridflow/format/main.rb:419:in `new' /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/gridflow/format/main.rb:175:in `_0_open' ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu. by opening the video file. i'm using an up2date gridflow_CVS with applequicktime enabled both system are running kubuntu 7.10 & the video file is enconded in mencoder although examplevideos won't work either... thanks for help olsen video file(60MB!): http://hasa-labs.org/timelapsus/seydisfjoerdur_Fimmtudagur.avi ./configure output This is the GridFlow 0.9.0 configurator within Ruby version 1.8.6-2007-06-07 [gcc3] GNU C++ Compiler 3 (or 4): --------------------------------------------> found [stl] C++ Standard Template Library: -----------------------------------------> found [gcc64] GNU C++ in 64-bit mode: ----------------------------------------------> missing (runtime error) [libruby] Ruby as a dynamic library: -----------------------------------------> found [librubystatic] Ruby as a static library: ------------------------------------> disabled (using libruby instead) [libtclh] Tcl headers <tcl.h>: -----------------------------------------------> missing (where is tcl.h ?) [libtclh] Tcl headers <tcl8.5/tcl.h>: ----------------------------------------> missing (where is tcl8.5/tcl.h ?) [libtclh] Tcl headers <tcl8.4/tcl.h>: ----------------------------------------> found [libtcl] Tcl as a dynamic library: -------------------------------------------> found [pentium] Pentium-compatible CPU: --------------------------------------------> found [mmx] MMX-compatible CPU (using NASM): ---------------------------------------> missing (return false) [usb] USB Library: -----------------------------------------------------------> found [x11] X11 Display Protocol: --------------------------------------------------> found [x11_shm] X11 acceleration by shared memory (XSHM plugin): -------------------> found [sdl] Simple Directmedia Layer (experimental support): -----------------------> missing (where is SDL/SDL.h ?) [objcpp] GNU/Apple ObjectiveC++ Compiler: ------------------------------------> missing (where is objc/Object.h ?) [quartz] Apple Quartz/Cocoa Display: -----------------------------------------> disabled (would need objcpp) [aalib] Ascii Art Library: ---------------------------------------------------> missing (where is aalib.h ?) [jpeg] JPEG Library: ---------------------------------------------------------> found [png] PNG Library <libpng12/png.h>: ------------------------------------------> found [videodev] Video4linux Digitizer Driver Interface: ---------------------------> found [mpeg3] HeroineWarrior LibMPEG3 <libmpeg3/libmpeg3.h>: -----------------------> missing (where is libmpeg3/libmpeg3.h ?) [mpeg3] HeroineWarrior LibMPEG3 <libmpeg3.h>: --------------------------------> found [quicktimeapple] Apple's QuickTime: ------------------------------------------> missing (gcc compilation error) [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime (try #1) <lqt/quicktime.h>: ---------------> missing (gcc compilation error) [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime (try #1) <quicktime/quicktime.h>: ---------> missing (where is quicktime/quicktime.h ?) [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime (try #2) <lqt/quicktime.h>: ---------------> missing (gcc compilation error) [quicktimehw] Plaum's LibQuickTime (try #2) <quicktime/quicktime.h>: ---------> missing (where is quicktime/quicktime.h ?) [puredata] PureData (or DesireData): -----------------------------------------> found [desiredata] DesireData: -----------------------------------------------------> missing (gcc: error: 'gobj_subscribe' was not declared in this scope) [gem09] PureData GEM (source code) with m_holdname: --------------------------> missing (gcc: error: 'CPPExtern' has not been declared) [gem08] PureData GEM (source code) without m_holdname: -----------------------> missing (gcc compilation error) [opencv] Intel OpenCV: -------------------------------------------------------> missing (gcc compilation error) [fftw] FFTW (Fastest Fourier Transform in the West): -------------------------> missing (gcc compilation error) generating ./config.make generating config.h See ./config.log if you want the details of the configuration tests. If you are satisfied with that configuration, you may go on, and do "make". "make install" is not needed anymore, just move your gridflow directory to "lib/pd/extra". If you get stuck, you could contact the author about it, but first make sure you read "doc/install.html". -- Planet Pluto bleibt!

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Re: [PD] poor performance when saving an abstraction when many copies are loaded in a patch
by matteo sisti sette 11 Jan '08

11 Jan '08

>> Would you ever say to someone writing an application in C++: >> >> "Think about converting some of your functions to macros"??? >> >> That is just not an option. >hmm, since when are macros bad? >especially in C (not so much in C++) i could imagine situations where >i would tell somebody to "convert some of your functions to macros". I knew somebody would say that :) You're perfectly right, my example was a bit weak, however I guess you understand what I meant. You can convert just SOME of your functions to macros - I'm no C++ expert but I guess you can do that with very "small" functions. You'll do it in a few special cases to optimize very critical portions of code, you can't adopt it as a general programming practice and convert MOST of your functions to macros, and many of them you simply can't convert. Anyway, you wouldn't accept to be obliged to do that just because C++ doesn't handle function calls well. >> And converting abstractions to subpatches is much more limiting than that. >> >>Using and reusing a great number of abstractions with many many levels >> of nesting is the only reasonable way (I can think of) of developing a >> large, complex, scalable, reusable "application" in PD. > >well yes you are right. >however, it is perfectly possible to do develop large complex scalable >and resuable applications in Pd (sometimes i do this) Of course it is! That's my whole point. It is possible and I do it too. Until the day comes that the application is just one bit too large and PD starts crashing or behaving weirdly. -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistisette(a)gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com

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poor performance when saving an abstraction when many copies are loaded in a patch
by hard off 11 Jan '08

11 Jan '08

something that is really slowing down my work recently: in some patches i need to have hundreds of copies of the same abstraction. to save just one copy of the abstraction would only take a fraction of a second, but when i have many hundreds of copies, pd is really stumbling to get these abstractions all renewed to the new saved version. it seems to be some kind of bottleneck situation, where the time taken to re-initialize these abstractions together is much longer than it would be to initialize them all seperately. in some cases it gets so bad that the only option i have is to close my master patch, open up a single version of the abstraction needed, edit and save it, and then re-open the master patch. kinda messy workaround though. is this a known flaw? are there any good workarounds?

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cooled_ for video
by bigswift＠cox.net 11 Jan '08

11 Jan '08

I am wondering how one might create a video version of sevvy's cooled extra. I would like to load in video clips and have them randomly auto-scratch at very least Just looking for some perspectives on how to approach this pp Patrick Pagano Sound and Light Technologist School of Theatre and Dance University of Florida

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Pd-list January 2008