Pd-list June 2007

pd-list@lists.iem.at

146 participants
264 discussions

pdmtl abstractions questions and comments (previously without a subject)
by Thomas O Fredericks 04 Jul '07

04 Jul '07

This a follow up to a few comments and questions sent by Mathieu Bouchard. In this text, Mathieu's comments and questions are preceded by a "M:". My answers are preceded by a "T:". Every subject is separated by a: ******** Please feel free to contribute to this discussion. ******** M: 'several signal classes names end in "_~" instead of "~" for no apparent reason. It seems that some nonsignal classes also end in "_" for no apparent reason.' T: In the http://wiki.dataflow.ws/PdMtlAbstractions/Usage page of the wiki, the "Special characters in abstraction names" section specifies that: a) abstractions that finish with "_~" are graphical signal objects (the only exception to this rule, and this might change, are the abstractions in the gui folder. These abstractions are used to create other "_" abstractions or to help debugging). b) abstractions that finish with "_" are graphical abstractions. Sometimes, we create an abstraction without a gui, then we create a gui that wraps the same abstraction. The name of both abstractions will be the same, except that the second version will have a "_" appended. ******** M: 'some class names are "like-this", some are "like_this", and some are "likethis", for no apparent reason. While this happens in the much less controlled world of pd's externals repository, I would expect more from the pdmtl abstractions' T: Although I prefer abstractions without a "-" or a "_" in their names, others do not. But, since our wiki states that "class names with multiple words in the name should use underscores to separate words (i.e [iem_anything_kernel], [curve_log], [define_loudspeakers], [my_canvas], etc.)", and this follows the http://puredata.info/docs/developer/CodeGuidelines, I will start the conversion of all names so it fits this standard. All abnormal abstractions will be renamed (thanks a lot for the work Mat :) ). ******** M: "I think it's pretty standard that every *-help.pd file has to contain an object of the class that it documents. Breaking this rule by cutting the documentation into that and *- example.pd files seems pointless. It seems even more pointless when the content of both files together is small enough that it would fit very well in one single patch on a small screen. If you're lacking space you can use subpatches, but really, so far, *- example.pd files seems like a superfluous concept." T: This is probably an oversight, please give examples of the erroneous help files. ******** M:- 'it's not obvious that "generate" is only for audio, and there might be lot of other classes outside of "generate" who might be understood like their purpose is to generate something. Especially confusing is the "synth" folder: why is anything of "generate" not in "synth" instead or vice-versa? ' T: I agree. The tern "generate" does not limit itself only to audio, but encompasses a lot of control abstractions. The basic problem was that the list of abstractions in this category was getting way out of hand. We had to find a solution. We asked ourselfs if we only keept control or signal abstractions in the generate category? We decide to spread the control abstractions around the other categories. By the way, we definitely do not want to create a category that ends with a "~" because who wants to instantiate an abstraction with the name generate~/bell~ ? The "synth" folder groups abstractions that are more like "complete" "midi" instruments (or at least try to be). Think of the "generate" category as the building blocks for the "synth" category. If this still seems to confusing, please reply with an alternative. ******** M: 'likewise, what's the difference between "fx" and "transform"? I don't get it.' T: The transformation category groups abstractions that transform stuff with no direct reference to any musical context. The "fx" category groups abstractions that modify signals in a musical context. You can't ask a musician to "repeat~" or "smooth~" his guitar sound. But you can ask him to "delay~", "echo~" or distort it. That's the basic difference between both categories. Is it really confusing? If you still find it confusing, where should we move the abstractions from the "transform" category? ******** M: 'the "math" folder is especially useless. As a math graduate I feel that byour concept of "math" is something that I lost somewhere along my path, or maybe that I never had it. Anyhow, 99% of what I'd call math stuff is outside of the "math" folder, so, what's the point.' T: The problem is that in any programming environment 99% of what you are doing has to do with math. The basic principle behind the categories where to think of them more as verbs, actions or types, instead of categorizing stuff along the c standard (or whatever it could/should be called). The verb, action or type categorization method tries to follow the dataflow method. For example, swap, print, send, receive, select, route, pack, etc are all verbs. That is why I imagined that categories should also follow this scheme. "math" is more of a category for stuff that hasn't found it's proper place yet. What do you think? Should the "number" category be include in "math"? How about "scale","random" or "anal". Tags instead of categories would be much better. ******** M: " _index.pd files don't actually contain a list of the patches in the folder, so why is it called an index?" T: You are obviously not using either of the official pdmtl abstractions help browsers ( hbrowser.pd or hpopup.pd) as they automatically exclude all files that they consider are not help files. One of the "in progress" ideas of the pdmtl abstractions is to exclude from the listing of help files everything that starts with a "_". So what is "_index.pd" for? There is a patch called "pdmtl_indexmaker.pd" in pdmtl's root folder. It scans all the help files, extracts information like the description of the abstraction, comments about it, etc, and then scans for the file "_index.pd" to get the description of the category. The end result gives you what you can find here: http://wiki.dataflow.ws/PdMtlAbstractions/Contents This system makes it VERY easy to list all the abstractions, their categories and descriptions. The whole process of getting the data and updating the web page takes less than a minute. ******** M: 'I see that you don't have a folder named "mapping" yet, but it's written in http://puredata.info/dev/PdLibraries, so I have to ask, what is a mapping? It seems like most object classes have the purpose "to map inputs to outputs". While browsing around in pdmtl abstractions, it seems like the term would apply to most of the stuff. So, what is that for?' T: Hum, so you asking us why we did not include a "mapping" category and then comment that "mapping" useless or too general???!!! if you are looking for something similar to the "mapping" category, you can check pdmtl's "scale" category. -- thomas ouellet fredericks, tof(a)danslchamp.org, montreal, canada > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mathieu Bouchard < matju(a)artengine.ca> > Date: 29 juin 2007 14:52 > Subject: [PD] (no subject) > To: pd-list(a)iem.at, Alexandre Quessy < listes(a)sourcelibre.com> > > > On Fri, 29 Jun 2007, Alexandre Quessy wrote: > > > Here are some of my findings about pdmtl: > > * several signal classes names end in "_~" instead of "~" for no apparent > reason. It seems that some nonsignal classes also end in "_" for no > apparent reason. > > * some class names are "like-this", some are "like_this", and some are > "likethis", for no apparent reason. While this happens in the much less > controlled world of pd's externals repository, I would expect more from > the pdmtl abstractions. > > * I think it's pretty standard that every *-help.pd file has to contain > an object of the class that it documents. Breaking this rule by cutting > the documentation into that and *- example.pd files seems pointless. It > seems even more pointless when the content of both files together is > small enough that it would fit very well in one single patch on a small > screen. If you're lacking space you can use subpatches, but really, so > far, *-example.pd files seems like a superfluous concept. > > * it's not obvious that "generate" is only for audio, and there might be > lot of other classes outside of "generate" who might be understood like > their purpose is to generate something. Especially confusing is the > "synth" folder: why is anything of "generate" not in "synth" instead or > vice-versa? > > * likewise, what's the difference between "fx" and "transform"? I don't > get it. > > * the "math" folder is especially useless. As a math graduate I feel that > your concept of "math" is something that I lost somewhere along my > path, or maybe that I never had it. Anyhow, 99% of what I'd call math > stuff is outside of the "math" folder, so, what's the point. > > * _index.pd files don't actually contain a list of the patches in the > folder, so why is it called an index? > > * convert/lightwave2freq doesn't use the correct constant. 2.99792e+08 is > the closest you can write in pd (the exact value is 299792458). > Because of this, this abstraction doesn't do what it advertises. You > may as well round pi to 3.14. > > * I see that you don't have a folder named "mapping" yet, but it's > written in http://puredata.info/dev/PdLibraries, so I have to ask, what > is a mapping? It seems like most object classes have the purpose > "to map inputs to outputs". While browsing around in pdmtl > abstractions, it seems like the term would apply to most of the stuff. > So, what is that for? > > _ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... > | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada > _______________________________________________ > PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > -- > Alexandre Quessy > http://alexandre.quessy.net > http://www.puredata.info/Members/aalex > _______________________________________________ > abs mailing list > abs(a)dataflow.ws > https://dataflow.ws/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/abs-dataflow.ws >

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dumpOSC feature request
by Richard Lewis 03 Jul '07

03 Jul '07

Hello PD list, Further to that response I gave about problems with OSC. I'd like to make a feature request/bug report: when you try to create a dumpOSC object using a port which is already in use, PD acts as if the object cannot be created - it renders the box with a dashed outline and reports the error "...couldn't create". This is actually very confusing as the user then assumes that PD can't find the object code and tries to solve the problem by checking library paths etc. A better way of handling this error would be if the dumpOSC object, upon finding that it can't attach to a port, sends an error message to that effect to the PD console. Any thoughts? Cheers, Richard -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Richard Lewis http://www.richard-lewis.me.uk/ JID: ironchicken(a)jabber.earth.li -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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Please explain Windows compiling once and for all!
by Mark Polesky 03 Jul '07

03 Jul '07

Hey, I'm trying not to get frustrated, seeing how posts like this one (on compiling externals for Windows) are either ignored or answered way too cryptically: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-06/051182.html I posted a similar question to the "PURE DATA forum~" a few days ago, and so far it too has gone unanswered: http://puredata.hurleur.com/sujet-1029-problem-compiling-external-windows Is compiling an external for Windows so mysterious that no one knows how to do it? The responses that I've seen so far usually amount to "well this is how it's done on linux, try changing this to that and maybe it'll work". The famous external tutorial ( http://iem.at/pd/externals-HOWTO/ ) looks very interesting, but it does me no good without knowing how to get from .c to .pd ... The request is simple: List the steps required (without skipping any!) to take the C source file "helloworld.c" and make it into a usable object in pd. Someone, please, help me out. Also feel free to tackle the other specific questions in my forum~ post. I'm sure there are plenty of other confused Windows programmers out there. Thanks.

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LaTeX in ZWiki at puredata.info
by ugur guney 02 Jul '07

02 Jul '07

# Hi, # Is it possible to use Latex in Wiki pages on puredata.info? # This summer I will teach PD and thought that wiki's in member pages is the best place to put the info. Latex output is not so essential but makes somethings easier. -uğur-

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External with inline code snippet
by Carlos Pita 02 Jul '07

02 Jul '07

Hi all, I want to write an external that will evaluate a bit of scheme code, something along the venue of expr~ but adding the possibility of evaluate simple control structures too (but inline, not in external scripts as is the case of pyext). What kind of parameter should I declare for my external constructor? If I declared A_GIMME, can I assume that the code will have been splitted just at whitespaces and so it's safe to reassemble it joining the fragments? Thank you in advance. Cheers, Carlos

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il 1 of 73 Older › question regarding pkg-config and aubio installation to work with PD
by tania habib 02 Jul '07

02 Jul '07

Hello List, I need some help/advice/suggestions regarding the problem I am facing nowadays. I have been trying to install aubio on my Mac osx but for that I need some other packages like fftw3, libsndfile, libsamplerate and pkgconfig. The first three are installed without any trouble but when I try to install pkgconfig. Do the following ./configure make make check Making check in check make check-TESTS /bin/sh: line 1: ./check-cflags: Permission denied FAIL: check-cflags /bin/sh: line 1: ./check-libs: Permission denied FAIL: check-libs /bin/sh: line 1: ./check-define-variable: Permission denied FAIL: check-define-variable /bin/sh: line 1: ./check-libs-private: Permission denied FAIL: check-libs-private /bin/sh: line 1: ./check-requires-private: Permission denied FAIL: check-requires-private /bin/sh: line 1: ./check-includedir: Permission denied FAIL: check-includedir =================== 6 of 6 tests failed =================== make[2]: *** [check-TESTS] Error 1 make[1]: *** [check-am] Error 2 make: *** [check-recursive] Error 1 ------------------------------------------------------------ If I ignore the errors and go ahead with aubio installation, after ./configure , it returns with error message like that checking for pkg-config... no checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... ./configure: line 21348: no: command not found no checking for SNDLIB... configure: error: The pkg-config script could not be found or is too old. Make sure it is in your PATH or set the PKG_CONFIG environment variable to the full path to pkg-config. Alternatively, you may set the environment variables SNDLIB_CFLAGS and SNDLIB_LIBS to avoid the need to call pkg-config. See the pkg-config man page for more details. To get pkg-config, see <http://www.freedesktop.org/software/pkgconfig >. See `config.log' for more details. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ after this I get this result and I do not know how to fix this problem. I tried posting a message on pkg-config list but did not get any positive results. I am hoping to get some feedback from someone who is using aubio and has encoutered such an error. Your help will be highly appreciated regards, tania

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mime type for Pd in GNOME
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 02 Jul '07

02 Jul '07

Hey all, I am working on getting Pd-extended integrated into GNOME. I need a MIME type to stick in the pd-extended.desktop file. Anyone know what I should put in there? It would be very nice to have working file associations. .hc ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- "[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from scarcity." -John Gilmore

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Re: [PD] [GEM]: GL Shader Language
by Cypod 01 Jul '07

01 Jul '07

On the cycling74 webpage there is an interesting article about writing shaders for jitter: http://cycling74.com/story/2007/5/23/181113/507 is there a similar function available for GEM? Has anyone had experience with doing this?

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[GEM] Problems with "homer.avi" and "anim-1.mov" on the simplest patch
by Javier García 30 Jun '07

30 Jun '07

Hi, I can't see correctly "anim-1.mov" or "homer.avi" which is at /doc/examples/Gem/data/ with the simplest GEM patch to play a movie (attached). It seems something lacks to handle correctly the channels. I know there is some wroten about video formats at the Gem's FAQ, but if they are the Gem's samples I suppose the files are correct. Â¿Is the patch uncorrect? Â¿Are the files uncorrect? br. Javi _________________________________________________________________ Un amor, una aventura, compaÃ±Ãa para un viaje. RegÃstrate gratis en MSN Amor & Amistad. http://match.msn.es/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid=162349

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unposting text from the console.
by Mathieu Bouchard 30 Jun '07

30 Jun '07

On Sat, 30 Jun 2007, Frank Barknecht wrote: > Mathieu Bouchard hat gesagt: // Mathieu Bouchard wrote: >> now you can make an [unpost] object > Hm, I tried, but I cannot. What am I doing wrong? Make sure that your computer is turned on. This can be achieved by rubbing the computer gently until it purrs. If not, try again while wearing garters. Then make sure that you have at least version 2007.06.30. The program will not actually report that version number though: pd -version still says 2007.06.28 and "About..." is not up-to-date. You need to have updated from the CVS after I wrote the first mail about [unpost]. You need to have recompiled. You need to do "make install" (if you really need it). _ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada

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Pd-list June 2007