I'm replying to Pd dev, not teh whole list :)
I got a zoom call with Maurice this morning to try to get some more info, and after a while had him try running from .../bin/pd -nrt -stderr -nosound -d 3
and got something like this:
[various stuff that all looked normal ...] Waiting for connection request... ... connected [...]
pdtk_pd_startup 0 56 0 {test3} { {"standard (portaudio)" 4} {jack 5}
} {} {Menlo} normal
::deken::set_platform {Darwin} {arm64} 64 32 ; set pd_whichapi 4 pdtk_pd_dsp {OFF} ; set pd_whichmidiapi 0 ;
input channels = 32, output channels = 32
set pd_whichmidiapi 0 ;
but I didn't get the next line I expected: << pd init /Users/msp/tmp/manoury-letzten/DLT_PATCH 0 9 5 10 10 6 11 12 7 14 16 10 19 23 14 26 36 22 41 16 10 19 19 12 22 23 14 26 32 20 38 46 28 54 73 44 85;
which should have come from the GUI because of the pdtk_pd_startup command that pd had sent to the GUI. So on Maurice's machine, apparently, even though Tcl/TK was running (and I could see it create the initial menu bar, from which "quit" worked but little else), either messages aren't getting from Pd to the GUI or vice versa.
This is happening on two of Maurice's Macs running two versions of the OS, and on which Pd 0.55-2 runs correctly. So I guess there might be some security measure in place that's stopping the communication (even though the TCP connection opens fine.)
I couldn't find any changes from 0.55-2 to 0.56-0 in the s_inter.c or pd-gui.tcl or pd_connect.tcl source files that looked relevant. I'd love to have a way to know if the pdtk_pd_startup routine gets called on the GUI side, but I don't know how to get "verbose" output from the TCL code when the Pd window itself doesn't open. If any of you has an idea I'd love to hear it...
Miller
On 8/1/25 11:57 AM, Maurice Moncozet wrote:
I tried to go inside the Resources file in the Contents of Pd-0.56-0.
1- I click on "pd" : answer of the Terminal:
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:27:14 on ttys001 /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUCgqicdGA$ ; exit; mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUCgqicdGA$ ; exit;
2- Click on pd-gui
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:29:29 on ttys000 /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$ ; exit; mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$ ; exit; /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$: line 18: /usr/local/lib/pd/tcl/pd-gui.tcl: No such file or directory /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$: line 18: exec: /usr/local/lib/pd/tcl/pd-gui.tcl: cannot execute: No such file or directory
Saving session... ...copying shared history... ...saving history...truncating history files... ...completed.
[Opération terminée]
3- click on pd-watchdog
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:30:29 on ttys001 /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$ ; exit; mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$ ; exit; watchdog: signaling pd... zsh: warning: 1 jobs SIGHUPed zsh: hangup /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$
Saving session... ...copying shared history... ...saving history...truncating history files... ...completed.
[Opération terminée]
4- The command proposed by IOhannes m zmölnig
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:39:33 on ttys001 mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUCgqicdGA$ -stderr -verbose Pd-0.56.0 ("") compiled 00:36:10 Jul 30 2025 float precision = 32 bits port 50221 "/Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/../MacOS/Pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/..*MacOS/Pd__;Lw!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUA_TxpUog$" 50221 Waiting for connection request... ... connected input channels = 4, output channels = 4 MIDI input (Volt 476P) opened. /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$ echo $?
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hi,
i can reproduce this exact behavior here on the m2 macbook air of a friend with macos 15.5 and the build from https://msp.ucsd.edu/software.html. interestingly, i have almost the exact same system, but can't reproduce it on my side.
temporarily disabled gatekeeper on that system, allowing applications from "anywhere" - but without success. also tested with -noprefs and -noaudio and with another build from my laptop with wish9.0.1 (although that doesn't make much sense if pd0.55-2 works well). imho, the main difference to my system is that i have developer tools installed.
doesn't help much - but maybe some info is relevant.
cheers, ben
On Mon, Aug 4, 2025 at 11:58 AM Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at wrote:
I'm replying to Pd dev, not teh whole list :)
I got a zoom call with Maurice this morning to try to get some more info, and after a while had him try running from .../bin/pd -nrt -stderr -nosound -d 3
and got something like this:
[various stuff that all looked normal ...] Waiting for connection request... ... connected [...]
pdtk_pd_startup 0 56 0 {test3} { {"standard (portaudio)" 4} {jack 5}
} {} {Menlo} normal
::deken::set_platform {Darwin} {arm64} 64 32 ; set pd_whichapi 4 pdtk_pd_dsp {OFF} ; set pd_whichmidiapi 0 ;
input channels = 32, output channels = 32
set pd_whichmidiapi 0 ;
but I didn't get the next line I expected: << pd init /Users/msp/tmp/manoury-letzten/DLT_PATCH 0 9 5 10 10 6 11 12 7 14 16 10 19 23 14 26 36 22 41 16 10 19 19 12 22 23 14 26 32 20 38 46 28 54 73 44 85;
which should have come from the GUI because of the pdtk_pd_startup command that pd had sent to the GUI. So on Maurice's machine, apparently, even though Tcl/TK was running (and I could see it create the initial menu bar, from which "quit" worked but little else), either messages aren't getting from Pd to the GUI or vice versa.
This is happening on two of Maurice's Macs running two versions of the OS, and on which Pd 0.55-2 runs correctly. So I guess there might be some security measure in place that's stopping the communication (even though the TCP connection opens fine.)
I couldn't find any changes from 0.55-2 to 0.56-0 in the s_inter.c or pd-gui.tcl or pd_connect.tcl source files that looked relevant. I'd love to have a way to know if the pdtk_pd_startup routine gets called on the GUI side, but I don't know how to get "verbose" output from the TCL code when the Pd window itself doesn't open. If any of you has an idea I'd love to hear it...
Miller
On 8/1/25 11:57 AM, Maurice Moncozet wrote:
I tried to go inside the Resources file in the Contents of Pd-0.56-0.
1- I click on "pd" : answer of the Terminal:
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:27:14 on ttys001 /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUCgqicdGA$ ; exit; mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUCgqicdGA$ ; exit;
2- Click on pd-gui
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:29:29 on ttys000 /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$ ; exit; mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$ ; exit; /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$: line 18: /usr/local/lib/pd/tcl/pd-gui.tcl: No such file or directory /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$: line 18: exec: /usr/local/lib/pd/tcl/pd-gui.tcl: cannot execute: No such file or directory
Saving session... ...copying shared history... ...saving history...truncating history files... ...completed.
[Opération terminée]
3- click on pd-watchdog
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:30:29 on ttys001 /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$ ; exit; mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$ ; exit; watchdog: signaling pd... zsh: warning: 1 jobs SIGHUPed zsh: hangup /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$
Saving session... ...copying shared history... ...saving history...truncating history files... ...completed.
[Opération terminée]
4- The command proposed by IOhannes m zmölnig
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:39:33 on ttys001 mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUCgqicdGA$ -stderr -verbose Pd-0.56.0 ("") compiled 00:36:10 Jul 30 2025 float precision = 32 bits port 50221 "/Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/../MacOS/Pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/..*MacOS/Pd__;Lw!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUA_TxpUog$" 50221 Waiting for connection request... ... connected input channels = 4, output channels = 4 MIDI input (Volt 476P) opened. /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$ echo $?
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Am 4. August 2025 14:52:23 MESZ schrieb Benjamin Wesch benjamin.wesch@gmail.com:
hi,
i can reproduce this exact behavior here on the m2 macbook air of a friend with macos 15.5 and the build from
cool that we now have multiple reproducers.
I have no idea, but: are we sure that there are no GUI plugins involved?
mfg.sfg.jfd IOhannes
That's interesting - I've seen it happen on windows that Pd once had a hidden dependency on a file in the developer system (so it wouldn't open if you didn't have it installed). But I can't think what the dependence could be.
It would take some time but one possibility if you can get back on your friend's machine would be to go through some old builds and try to figure out which commit broke it.
cheers Miller
On 8/4/25 2:52 PM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
hi,
i can reproduce this exact behavior here on the m2 macbook air of a friend with macos 15.5 and the build from https://msp.ucsd.edu/software.html . interestingly, i have almost the exact same system, but can't reproduce it on my side.
temporarily disabled gatekeeper on that system, allowing applications from "anywhere" - but without success. also tested with -noprefs and -noaudio and with another build from my laptop with wish9.0.1 (although that doesn't make much sense if pd0.55-2 works well). imho, the main difference to my system is that i have developer tools installed.
doesn't help much - but maybe some info is relevant.
cheers, ben
On Mon, Aug 4, 2025 at 11:58 AM Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at wrote:
I'm replying to Pd dev, not teh whole list :)
I got a zoom call with Maurice this morning to try to get some more info, and after a while had him try running from .../bin/pd -nrt -stderr -nosound -d 3
and got something like this:
[various stuff that all looked normal ...] Waiting for connection request... ... connected [...]
pdtk_pd_startup 0 56 0 {test3} { {"standard (portaudio)" 4} {jack 5}
} {} {Menlo} normal
::deken::set_platform {Darwin} {arm64} 64 32 ; set pd_whichapi 4 pdtk_pd_dsp {OFF} ; set pd_whichmidiapi 0 ;
input channels = 32, output channels = 32
set pd_whichmidiapi 0 ;
but I didn't get the next line I expected: << pd init /Users/msp/tmp/manoury-letzten/DLT_PATCH 0 9 5 10 10 6 11 12 7 14 16 10 19 23 14 26 36 22 41 16 10 19 19 12 22 23 14 26 32 20 38 46 28 54 73 44 85;
which should have come from the GUI because of the pdtk_pd_startup command that pd had sent to the GUI. So on Maurice's machine, apparently, even though Tcl/TK was running (and I could see it create the initial menu bar, from which "quit" worked but little else), either messages aren't getting from Pd to the GUI or vice versa.
This is happening on two of Maurice's Macs running two versions of the OS, and on which Pd 0.55-2 runs correctly. So I guess there might be some security measure in place that's stopping the communication (even though the TCP connection opens fine.)
I couldn't find any changes from 0.55-2 to 0.56-0 in the s_inter.c or pd-gui.tcl or pd_connect.tcl source files that looked relevant. I'd love to have a way to know if the pdtk_pd_startup routine gets called on the GUI side, but I don't know how to get "verbose" output from the TCL code when the Pd window itself doesn't open. If any of you has an idea I'd love to hear it...
Miller
On 8/1/25 11:57 AM, Maurice Moncozet wrote:
I tried to go inside the Resources file in the Contents of Pd-0.56-0.
1- I click on "pd" : answer of the Terminal:
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:27:14 on ttys001 /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUCgqicdGA$ ; exit; mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUCgqicdGA$ ; exit;
2- Click on pd-gui
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:29:29 on ttys000 /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$ ; exit; mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$ ; exit; /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$: line 18: /usr/local/lib/pd/tcl/pd-gui.tcl: No such file or directory /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-gui__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAXNk-NQw$: line 18: exec: /usr/local/lib/pd/tcl/pd-gui.tcl: cannot execute: No such file or directory
Saving session... ...copying shared history... ...saving history...truncating history files... ...completed.
[Opération terminée]
3- click on pd-watchdog
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:30:29 on ttys001 /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$ ; exit; mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$ ; exit; watchdog: signaling pd... zsh: warning: 1 jobs SIGHUPed zsh: hangup /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$
Saving session... ...copying shared history... ...saving history...truncating history files... ...completed.
[Opération terminée]
4- The command proposed by IOhannes m zmölnig
Last login: Fri Aug 1 11:39:33 on ttys001 mauricemoncozet@Mac-mini-de-Maurice ~ % /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUCgqicdGA$ -stderr -verbose Pd-0.56.0 ("") compiled 00:36:10 Jul 30 2025 float precision = 32 bits port 50221 "/Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/../MacOS/Pd https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/..*MacOS/Pd__;Lw!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUA_TxpUog$" 50221 Waiting for connection request... ... connected input channels = 4, output channels = 4 MIDI input (Volt 476P) opened. /Applications/Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://Pd-0.56-0.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd-watchdog__;!!Mih3wA!BbaZg4y9pkVaa1VdG5fd6xF0f_L3Pg7LfS2wgqvzoqnmA_Np8ShfnHBU6Ae8lMOebF76UsKN0CKUZUAtr6S5ig$ echo $?
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I have no idea, but: are we sure that there are no GUI plugins involved?
will check again - but i'm pretty sure since he's not a pd user. there might be some remains from a previous external test i did (don't remember), but that wouldn't have involved any GUI plugins.
go through some old builds and try to figure out which commit broke it.
i'll first quickly try to reproduce it on my own system since he unfortunately needs his computer for work now. ;) ... but i might be able to do this these days!
cheers, ben
i didn't spend much time on this anymore (no success reproducing it on my laptop) - but i had the option to quickly check on an intel mac with macos 15.5 without devtools or prior pd installs: it shows the same problem!
testing with the available builds from https://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/, i found that Pd0.56-0test1 is still working fine, while Pd0.56-0test2 has the issue.
cheers, ben
On Mon, Aug 4, 2025 at 3:19 PM Benjamin Wesch benjamin.wesch@gmail.com wrote:
I have no idea, but: are we sure that there are no GUI plugins involved?
will check again - but i'm pretty sure since he's not a pd user. there might be some remains from a previous external test i did (don't remember), but that wouldn't have involved any GUI plugins.
go through some old builds and try to figure out which commit broke it.
i'll first quickly try to reproduce it on my own system since he unfortunately needs his computer for work now. ;) ... but i might be able to do this these days!
cheers, ben
ah, another bit of info that might be interesting: the "About Pd" window is working and if this is open, the title bar also gives access to the other menus. i didn't test everything, but the "Tools -> Message..." and "Help -> Browser..." windows are also working (the browser starts veeeery slowly though).
Am 4. August 2025 23:00:20 MESZ schrieb Benjamin Wesch benjamin.wesch@gmail.com:
ah, another bit of info that might be interesting: the "About Pd" window is working and if this is open, the title bar also gives access to the other menus. i didn't test everything, but the "Tools -> Message..." and "Help -> Browser..." windows are also working (the browser starts veeeery slowly though).
I only hope that this has nothing to do with my rewrite of the menus (having different menus for the PdWindow and PatchWindows).
I cannot think of how this would interfere at all (not how this could be related to having devtools installed), but who knows....
mfg.sfg.jfd IOhannes
I only hope that this has nothing to do with my rewrite of the menus (having different menus for the PdWindow and PatchWindows).
since test1 already includes your changes (afaict) and works well, i guess they're fine. i'm currently more worried that my attempt of restoring the "Pd help" entry is causing the issue and somehow interferes with the initialization: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/eaa3fb53d287d15a07325e5f33a168...
... but same here: no idea why that's not an issue on my machine.
cheers, ben
I can't seem to get hold of the CI "pipelines" right now (getting an error) but... would it be possible to test some versions between test1 and test2 to narrow things down?
cheers M
On 8/5/25 12:08 PM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
I only hope that this has nothing to do with my rewrite of the menus (having different menus for the PdWindow and PatchWindows).
since test1 already includes your changes (afaict) and works well, i guess they're fine. i'm currently more worried that my attempt of restoring the "Pd help" entry is causing the issue and somehow interferes with the initialization: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/ea...
... but same here: no idea why that's not an issue on my machine.
cheers, ben
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yep. i prepared some builds from several commits between those - just don't have a machine to test right now.
cheers, ben
On Tue, Aug 5, 2025, 12:22 Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at wrote:
I can't seem to get hold of the CI "pipelines" right now (getting an error) but... would it be possible to test some versions between test1 and test2 to narrow things down?
cheers M
On 8/5/25 12:08 PM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
I only hope that this has nothing to do with my rewrite of the menus
(having different menus for the PdWindow and PatchWindows).
since test1 already includes your changes (afaict) and works well, i guess they're fine. i'm currently more worried that my attempt of restoring the "Pd help" entry is causing the issue and somehow interferes with the initialization:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/ea...
... but same here: no idea why that's not an issue on my machine.
cheers, ben
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I can successfully run 0.56.0 on school computers with macOS 15.5 installed. However, they seem to have developer tools installed. Now I just got a freshly installed Sequoia on a MacBook for testing and indeed, when starting Pd 0.56.0 on it, I only see the menu. So far I can only confirm what others have already figured out.
Roman
On Tue, 2025-08-05 at 12:30 +0200, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
yep. i prepared some builds from several commits between those - just don't have a machine to test right now.
cheers, ben
I checked the diff between test1 und test2 and found the only change in the tcl files to be in pd_menus.tcl.
After commenting out the following lines (79-82):
# # create separate help menu for pdwindow on macOS (system integration) # if {$::windowingsystem eq "aqua" && $::tcl_version >= 8.5} { # build_help_menu [menu $::pdwindow_menubar.help] # $::pdwindow_menubar entryconfigure "Help" -menu $::pdwindow_menubar.help # } #
I have a working Pd-0.56-0.app on macOS 15.5
(The change didn't seem to have an effect immediately. I had to restart Pd.app a few times before I experienced a difference)
Roman
On Tue, 2025-08-05 at 12:30 +0200, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
yep. i prepared some builds from several commits between those - just don't have a machine to test right now.
cheers, ben
On Tue, Aug 5, 2025, 12:22 Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at wrote:
I can't seem to get hold of the CI "pipelines" right now (getting an error) but... would it be possible to test some versions between test1 and test2 to narrow things down?
cheers M
On 8/5/25 12:08 PM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
I only hope that this has nothing to do with my rewrite of the menus (having different menus for the PdWindow and PatchWindows).
since test1 already includes your changes (afaict) and works well, i guess they're fine. i'm currently more worried that my attempt of restoring the "Pd help" entry is causing the issue and somehow interferes with the initialization: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/ea...
... but same here: no idea why that's not an issue on my machine.
cheers, ben
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that's what i feared. :( sorry about this! - i assumed that my tests here were sufficient.
thanks for your tests, roman!
i would hope that this different approach might fix it (so that the help menu works for pd window and patch window with the "Pd help" entry): https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/compare/master...ben-wes:pure-data:fi...
that's not confirmed yet, though.
cheers, ben
On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 1:33 PM Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com wrote:
I checked the diff between test1 und test2 and found the only change in the tcl files to be in pd_menus.tcl.
After commenting out the following lines (79-82):
# # create separate help menu for pdwindow on macOS (system integration) # if {$::windowingsystem eq "aqua" && $::tcl_version >= 8.5} { # build_help_menu [menu $::pdwindow_menubar.help] # $::pdwindow_menubar entryconfigure "Help" -menu $::pdwindow_menubar.help # } #
I have a working Pd-0.56-0.app on macOS 15.5
(The change didn't seem to have an effect immediately. I had to restart Pd.app a few times before I experienced a difference)
Roman
On Tue, 2025-08-05 at 12:30 +0200, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
yep. i prepared some builds from several commits between those - just don't have a machine to test right now.
cheers, ben
On Tue, Aug 5, 2025, 12:22 Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at wrote:
I can't seem to get hold of the CI "pipelines" right now (getting an error) but... would it be possible to test some versions between test1 and test2 to narrow things down?
cheers M
On 8/5/25 12:08 PM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
I only hope that this has nothing to do with my rewrite of the menus (having different menus for the PdWindow and PatchWindows).
since test1 already includes your changes (afaict) and works well, i guess they're fine. i'm currently more worried that my attempt of restoring the "Pd help" entry is causing the issue and somehow interferes with the initialization: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/ea...
... but same here: no idea why that's not an issue on my machine.
cheers, ben
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OK, I'll wait until Roman (or anyone else) can verify this fixes it. (Meanwhile I've hit at least one crasher bug when deleting fields from [struct] objects (which sets off a chain of data resizing and relocation) - so I'll probably have something to update in a day or two as well.
cheers M
On 8/6/25 1:39 PM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
that's what i feared. :( sorry about this! - i assumed that my tests here were sufficient.
thanks for your tests, roman!
i would hope that this different approach might fix it (so that the help menu works for pd window and patch window with the "Pd help" entry): https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/compare/m...
that's not confirmed yet, though.
cheers, ben
On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 1:33 PM Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com wrote:
I checked the diff between test1 und test2 and found the only change in the tcl files to be in pd_menus.tcl.
After commenting out the following lines (79-82):
# # create separate help menu for pdwindow on macOS (system integration) # if {$::windowingsystem eq "aqua" && $::tcl_version >= 8.5} { # build_help_menu [menu $::pdwindow_menubar.help] # $::pdwindow_menubar entryconfigure "Help" -menu $::pdwindow_menubar.help # } #
I have a working Pd-0.56-0.app on macOS 15.5
(The change didn't seem to have an effect immediately. I had to restart Pd.app a few times before I experienced a difference)
Roman
On Tue, 2025-08-05 at 12:30 +0200, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
yep. i prepared some builds from several commits between those - just don't have a machine to test right now.
cheers, ben
On Tue, Aug 5, 2025, 12:22 Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at wrote:
I can't seem to get hold of the CI "pipelines" right now (getting an error) but... would it be possible to test some versions between test1 and test2 to narrow things down?
cheers M
On 8/5/25 12:08 PM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
I only hope that this has nothing to do with my rewrite of the menus (having different menus for the PdWindow and PatchWindows).
since test1 already includes your changes (afaict) and works well, i guess they're fine. i'm currently more worried that my attempt of restoring the "Pd help" entry is causing the issue and somehow interferes with the initialization: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/ea...
... but same here: no idea why that's not an issue on my machine.
cheers, ben
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On Wed, 2025-08-06 at 14:42 +0200, Miller Puckette via Pd-dev wrote:
OK, I'll wait until Roman (or anyone else) can verify this fixes it. (Meanwhile I've hit at least one crasher bug when deleting fields from [struct] objects (which sets off a chain of data resizing and relocation) - so I'll probably have something to update in a day or two as well.
I applied this patch¹ to pd_menus.tcl and the menu entry "Pd Help" appeared again and opens the HTML manual in the browser. From what I can tell, this looks good on macOS Sequoia with this patch.
Note: In Linux, the corresponding menu item is named "HTML Manual" which I find is more meaningful than just "Pd Help". Also, on the Mac, all menu items are localized except "Pd Help". I see in the code that macOS is handled differently. So maybe the name of this menu item is a "Macism"?
Roman
¹ https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/7ec024e7edff662e03a980995e9e19...
So maybe the name of this menu item is a "Macism"?
yep. see https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/tcl/apple_events.tcl#L58-...
... for this reason, the "HTML Manual..." entry is only added to the help menu for non-macOS or previous TCL versions: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/tcl/pd_menus.tcl#L361-L36...
i'm not sure whether my new approach is good - so i'd certainly be glad if more eyes could check this. i see 2 options now: 1. create only the help menu twice outside the loop (what Roman tested): https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/compare/master...ben-wes:pure-data:fi... 2. create all these menus twice: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/compare/master...ben-wes:pure-data:fi...
after burning my fingers here, i'd prefer to let others decide. ;)
... and there's now unfortunately a need for a quick bugfix release based on this mess, i'd be curious if other mac users can reproduce what i reported in https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/2719
cheers, ben
On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 3:09 PM Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 2025-08-06 at 14:42 +0200, Miller Puckette via Pd-dev wrote:
OK, I'll wait until Roman (or anyone else) can verify this fixes it. (Meanwhile I've hit at least one crasher bug when deleting fields from [struct] objects (which sets off a chain of data resizing and relocation) - so I'll probably have something to update in a day or two as well.
I applied this patch¹ to pd_menus.tcl and the menu entry "Pd Help" appeared again and opens the HTML manual in the browser. From what I can tell, this looks good on macOS Sequoia with this patch.
Note: In Linux, the corresponding menu item is named "HTML Manual" which I find is more meaningful than just "Pd Help". Also, on the Mac, all menu items are localized except "Pd Help". I see in the code that macOS is handled differently. So maybe the name of this menu item is a "Macism"?
Roman
¹ https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/7ec024e7edff662e03a980995e9e19...
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OK, I just merged this, even though it isn't very well tested yet it's almost certainly an improvement - and I need to push it to github to get it compiled for Mac so that I can get Maurice (who first reported this) to try it out. Anyway I fixed a crasher bug I found while working on a big fat patch with lots of data structures in it.
cheers Miller
On 8/6/25 4:08 PM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
So maybe the name of this menu item is a "Macism"?
yep. see https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/mast...
... for this reason, the "HTML Manual..." entry is only added to the help menu for non-macOS or previous TCL versions: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/mast...
i'm not sure whether my new approach is good - so i'd certainly be glad if more eyes could check this. i see 2 options now:
- create only the help menu twice outside the loop (what Roman
tested): https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/compare/m... 2. create all these menus twice: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/compare/m...
after burning my fingers here, i'd prefer to let others decide. ;)
... and there's now unfortunately a need for a quick bugfix release based on this mess, i'd be curious if other mac users can reproduce what i reported in https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/27...
cheers, ben
On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 3:09 PM Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 2025-08-06 at 14:42 +0200, Miller Puckette via Pd-dev wrote:
OK, I'll wait until Roman (or anyone else) can verify this fixes it. (Meanwhile I've hit at least one crasher bug when deleting fields from [struct] objects (which sets off a chain of data resizing and relocation) - so I'll probably have something to update in a day or two as well.
I applied this patch¹ to pd_menus.tcl and the menu entry "Pd Help" appeared again and opens the HTML manual in the browser. From what I can tell, this looks good on macOS Sequoia with this patch.
Note: In Linux, the corresponding menu item is named "HTML Manual" which I find is more meaningful than just "Pd Help". Also, on the Mac, all menu items are localized except "Pd Help". I see in the code that macOS is handled differently. So maybe the name of this menu item is a "Macism"?
Roman
¹ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/7e...
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Am 6. August 2025 17:12:24 MESZ schrieb Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at:
OK, I just merged this, even though it isn't very well tested yet it's almost certainly an improvement - and I need to push it to github to get it compiled for Mac so that
cool. btw, the iem-ci should be back to operational.
mfg.sfg.jfd IOhannes
Am 6. August 2025 19:43:16 MESZ schrieb "IOhannes m zmölnig via Pd-dev" pd-dev@lists.iem.at:
Am 6. August 2025 17:12:24 MESZ schrieb Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at:
OK, I just merged this, even though it isn't very well tested yet it's almost certainly an improvement - and I need to push it to github to get it compiled for Mac so that
cool. btw, the iem-ci should be back to operational.
obviously the iem-ci is **not** back to normal yet (but git.iem.at is) - the macOS build bot is still out of order.
sorry for the confusion.
mfg.sfg.jfd IOhannes
hi,
following up with a bit of embarrassing clarification on that issue: the problem simply was that i didn't use the translation [_ Help], but hardcoded "Help" in eaa3fb53.
so this is not at all connected to setups without dev tools, but simply happening whenever the "Help" menu has a different name, causing the entryconfigure command to fail, i guess (which i used to replace the pdwindow's help menu - and which was not the cleanest approach anyway). i can reproduce the issue on my system after simply switching macOS to German.
so again: sorry for this rather stupid mistake! at least, it seems like we don't need to consider any dev tools state when testing.
cheers, ben
On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 9:05 PM IOhannes m zmölnig via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at wrote:
Am 6. August 2025 19:43:16 MESZ schrieb "IOhannes m zmölnig via Pd-dev" pd-dev@lists.iem.at:
Am 6. August 2025 17:12:24 MESZ schrieb Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at:
OK, I just merged this, even though it isn't very well tested yet it's almost certainly an improvement - and I need to push it to github to get it compiled for Mac so that
cool. btw, the iem-ci should be back to operational.
obviously the iem-ci is **not** back to normal yet (but git.iem.at is) - the macOS build bot is still out of order.
sorry for the confusion.
mfg.sfg.jfd IOhannes
pd-dev@lists.iem.at - the Pd developers' mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/2GC522CHKQM...
... one could argue that the previous approach actually *is* cleaner since it only duplicates the menu for macOS and keeps the simple approach of reusing all menus for pdwindow and patch window in all other cases.
if that's preferable, then https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/compare/master...ben-wes:fix/pdwindow... would be the corresponding fix on master.
cheers, ben
On Thu, Aug 7, 2025 at 8:40 AM Benjamin Wesch benjamin.wesch@gmail.com wrote:
hi,
following up with a bit of embarrassing clarification on that issue: the problem simply was that i didn't use the translation [_ Help], but hardcoded "Help" in eaa3fb53.
so this is not at all connected to setups without dev tools, but simply happening whenever the "Help" menu has a different name, causing the entryconfigure command to fail, i guess (which i used to replace the pdwindow's help menu - and which was not the cleanest approach anyway). i can reproduce the issue on my system after simply switching macOS to German.
so again: sorry for this rather stupid mistake! at least, it seems like we don't need to consider any dev tools state when testing.
cheers, ben
On Wed, Aug 6, 2025 at 9:05 PM IOhannes m zmölnig via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at wrote:
Am 6. August 2025 19:43:16 MESZ schrieb "IOhannes m zmölnig via Pd-dev" pd-dev@lists.iem.at:
Am 6. August 2025 17:12:24 MESZ schrieb Miller Puckette via Pd-dev pd-dev@lists.iem.at:
OK, I just merged this, even though it isn't very well tested yet it's almost certainly an improvement - and I need to push it to github to get it compiled for Mac so that
cool. btw, the iem-ci should be back to operational.
obviously the iem-ci is **not** back to normal yet (but git.iem.at is) - the macOS build bot is still out of order.
sorry for the confusion.
mfg.sfg.jfd IOhannes
pd-dev@lists.iem.at - the Pd developers' mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-dev@lists.iem.at/message/2GC522CHKQM...
On Wed, 2025-08-06 at 13:33 +0200, Roman Haefeli wrote:
I checked the diff between test1 und test2 and found the only change in the tcl files to be in pd_menus.tcl.
After commenting out the following lines (79-82):
# # create separate help menu for pdwindow on macOS (system integration) # if {$::windowingsystem eq "aqua" && $::tcl_version >= 8.5} { # build_help_menu [menu $::pdwindow_menubar.help] # $::pdwindow_menubar entryconfigure "Help" -menu $::pdwindow_menubar.help # } #
I have a working Pd-0.56-0.app on macOS 15.5
(The change didn't seem to have an effect immediately. I had to restart Pd.app a few times before I experienced a difference)
Without theses line, the Menu Help -> "Pd Help" is missing, of course.
Roman