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how to know if a GUI object is visible in a GOP?
by Alexandre Torres Porres 27 Jun '20

27 Jun '20

Hi folks, I opened an issue about this on github, but since there was no answer I'm hoping to get some attention and a possible answer here on the dev list. In Pd, if you have graphical objects in a GOP subpatch that are out of the visible range, it's possible they get drawn, and I opened the issue to mention that [vradio], for instance, does that (here it is: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1053 ). I also mentioned n there how graphs inside a GOP subpatch can also do that. But I also have this issue with some GUI externals I take care of. So, is there a way for an object to know if it is visible in the parent pacth so we do not tell it to get drawn? What I've now just stumbled upon is our code for cyclone/scope~ - unlike [vradio], if the object is out of bounds in a GOP and I tell it to change dimensions, it won't get drawn, but trigger a tcl/tk error instead. Note that no error happens if the subpatch is opened or if it is inside bounds (or both of course). Anyway, this line is what triggers the error => https://github.com/porres/pd-cyclone/blob/cyclone_0.5-1/cyclone_objects/bin… The error gives me hope there's a way to check if it is possible to do it, and then not tell it to do it if it's not possible... I used the "(glist_isvisible())" function to check if it's visible. It doesn't work as a check because the object is in a GOP, so it'll say it is visible, even though the object itself is actually out of bounds. Now, in the case of scope~, it tries to delete the GUI by referring to the subpatch canvas, and I assume it doesn't work because that window isn't active/opened. So if I change the lines below sys_vgui(".x%lx.c delete all%lx\n", x->x_cv, x); scope_draw(x, x->x_cv); To refer to the parent canvas (and not "x->x_cv"), I don't get an error, but I get the object getting redrawn in the parent patch outside the graph, just like the issue I reported with [vradio]. Again, when bumping into this, I thought, since the object knows it can't delete and redraw (that is, since it gives an error), there could be a way to check it. What do you say? Thanks

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Re: [PD-dev] Macs to transition to ARM processors
by Dan Wilcox 25 Jun '20

25 Jun '20

> On Jun 25, 2020, at 12:00 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: > >> I don't often feel so welcome when the platform I'm explicitly contributing a good amount of time toward is often bashed by people who don't prefer to use it. > > sorry. if my post came across like this, it was really unintentional. > (on re-reading, i don't find my email especially snarky; except for the > first line alluding to iOS as their mainline system) Oh, you are probably right. I was more annoyed that, after writing an initial mail focused on the technical aspects of the upcoming transition, the entire contents of one of the responses was basically "I don't like Apple. Monopoly, blah blah..." Again, everyone can use their platform, it's all fine, but why bother writing that? Start your own thread then. Anyway, enough time wasted on that. As far as testing goes, I won't know much until I upgrade to macOS 11.0 when it comes out. I'm currently on 10.14 and will essentially skip 10.15 so far. I might see what Xcode 12 brings on a work machine. -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD-dev] Macs to transition to ARM processors
by Dan Wilcox 24 Jun '20

24 Jun '20

> On Jun 24, 2020, at 12:00 PM, pd-dev-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > so running on all > architectures ever supported by OSX (modulo system libraries...). To be pedantic, it has been officially "macOS" for some years now. The upcoming version will be 11.0, so "OS X" will no longer be relevant anyway. > why not just add arm64 to that list? I was only musing that the "Universal 2" format *might* be new. I haven't read any of the details about it yet. Hopefully it's the same thing with just the new architecture. > so initially, I was going to rebuke the idea oft a d_fat2 format. > > apple's labelling as "Universal 2" is a bit concerning though... > > anyhow, I don't really see why apple should make a 2nd universal format. > iirc, "fat" is a technology from NextStep, so its well aged, and has > proven itself. > this of course is no reason to not drop it. I mentioned that it *might* be different as there was some talk about Rosetta 2 and the other emulation/virtualization layers having some sort of way to optimize existing binaries for the different architecture, which led me to think that they might rework the "fat" approach with some additions or changes to facilitate this and/or lay the groundwork for the next 10-20 years. OTOH I also cannot imagine them changing something as fundamental as this unless it's *really* necessary. > more important: can you (well: they) make money with a new format? > i'm having a hard time here to imagine how (but then: i'm not very good > in imagining how to make money in general). (The following is not to IOhannes in particular.) As per the usual Apple grumbling I will say "nobody is forcing people to buy an Apple product." Supporting is another story, but now there are people like me to help and I don't often feel so welcome when the platform I'm explicitly contributing a good amount of time toward is often bashed by people who don't prefer to use it. If support is a pain, then those institutions relying on Macs, of which there are many, could maybe kick back some development support in some way or even a build machine or two... > i don't think there are still enough ppc users left for apple to care > about them. > thinkgs might be different with i386 though. The last 32-bit only Intel Macs are from the late 00s, so there are some but their numbers are probably lower than you may think. There are probably fewer 32-bit Intel Macs in use now than ppc I bet, at least as far as Pd is concerned. > however, i guess the biggest issue is for the developers it's getting > really hard to create fat binaries that cover more architectures than > x86_64 and i-arm64. > that's because there's no reasonable toolchains available that allow you > to do so. Right. I imagine we are looking at a minimum of needing the Xcode12 developer tools (ie. compiler chain), without the Xcode UI. > so the only way to produce fat binaries (that include mor ethan x86_&4 > and amd64) is to have multiple build systems (parts of them unsupported > by now) and combine the artifacts into a single binary in a second step. I think it's better to have separate builds, which we already have. It's already hard enough, especially concerning Tcl/Tk frameworks, that I do not think making "one app bundle to rule them all" is even practical... feasible perhaps, but not sustainable. > that sounds like a big enough hurdle to be a rather plump nudge for most > applications to support only "recent" architecture. no need to invent a > new format. -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD-dev] How to create an unsigned Pd.app?
by Dan Wilcox 10 Jun '20

10 Jun '20

Howdy Roman, > On Jun 10, 2020, at 12:00 PM, pd-dev-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 10:46:16 +0200 > From: Roman Haefeli <reduzent(a)gmail.com <mailto:reduzent@gmail.com>> > To: pd-dev <pd-dev(a)lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-dev@lists.iem.at>> > Subject: [PD-dev] How to create an unsigned Pd.app? > Message-ID: <a29f644f7d58e842bf91e05bb7909bb136346698.camel(a)gmail.com <mailto:a29f644f7d58e842bf91e05bb7909bb136346698.camel@gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi all > > I only loosely followed the discussion about how apps for upcoming > macOS versions need to be signed and notarized to run without warnings. > > It seems the official builds for macOS distributed by Miller are > signed. Also, when I do 'make app' I seem to get a signed Pd.app. Is > there an easy way to build an unsigned Pd.app? <gripe>It was hard enough to test & fix this, of course someone *doesn't* want it to be done. :P</gripe> If you want to experiment, just comment the code sign section at the end of mac/osx-app.sh. This will disable adhoc signing and notarization. But...You *have* to sign it with *something* for 10.15 or it will be even worse: loading every older external will be blocked and have to be manually loaded. > I got complaints from people that installing netpd is hard and > convoluted. I am now trying to build a netpd.app based on Pd.app that > includes netpd and externals. I got it working so far, but when it is > downloaded through a browser, it triggers a pop up saying "This app is > damaged and cannot be opened" (translated from German). I can remove > the com.apple.quarantine attribute with: > > xattr -d com.apple.quarantine netpd-2.2.app > > and then it runs fine, but having to use the terminal to make it work > defeats the purpose of the whole exercise. As you noted, Miller's Pd.app is now signed. It's just a fake adhoc signing (certificate name "-") which doesn't require an account or actual signing certificate. You could essentially copy all of your netpd files into a copy of Pd.app, then re-sign everything yourself. That should at least get you to the same point as Miller's original download from a user perspective, ie. Right-click + Open, then good after that. You may need to sign some deeper stuff like frameworks manually before signing the whole bundle. This is what we needed to add to sign the Tcl & Tk frameworks to solve the latest issue. Again, look at the end of mac/osx-app.sh. > I am actually only assuming the "damaged" pop-up is caused by a > signature that I render invalid by manipulating it. Maybe I do > something wrong that is totally unrelated. The signature thing just > seemed the most likely reason. "Damaged" is use whenever there is an issue with an app bundle, be it a missing/unreadable Info.plist, incorrect dir layout, or security issue. Use codesign to print out the existing signing info (I forget the codesign args, it's searchable). -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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How to create an unsigned Pd.app?
by Roman Haefeli 10 Jun '20

10 Jun '20

Hi all I only loosely followed the discussion about how apps for upcoming macOS versions need to be signed and notarized to run without warnings. It seems the official builds for macOS distributed by Miller are signed. Also, when I do 'make app' I seem to get a signed Pd.app. Is there an easy way to build an unsigned Pd.app? I got complaints from people that installing netpd is hard and convoluted. I am now trying to build a netpd.app based on Pd.app that includes netpd and externals. I got it working so far, but when it is downloaded through a browser, it triggers a pop up saying "This app is damaged and cannot be opened" (translated from German). I can remove the com.apple.quarantine attribute with: xattr -d com.apple.quarantine netpd-2.2.app and then it runs fine, but having to use the terminal to make it work defeats the purpose of the whole exercise. I am actually only assuming the "damaged" pop-up is caused by a signature that I render invalid by manipulating it. Maybe I do something wrong that is totally unrelated. The signature thing just seemed the most likely reason. Any hints are welcome. Roman

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inlets sending to wrong outlets
by Eric Lennartson 01 Jun '20

01 Jun '20

Hey all, I've been working with variable amounts of inlets and outlets and for the most part it's been working fine. If it's only variable inlets and the outlets are fixed, or vice versa, it works fine. However when both are variable I can't seem to get the inlets to go to the correct outlet. My current code is cycling through the inlets and outlets in pairs, but for some reason this isn't working. Any thoughts? Thanks Eric

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Re: [PD-dev] Pd-dev Digest, Vol 181, Issue 24
by Eric Lennartson 01 Jun '20

01 Jun '20

For some reason your response didn't show up in my email Cristof, but to answer your question, I am providing two creation arguments that sets the number of inlets and outlets. Could you elaborate on how buffer aliasing is caused by how the surrounding objects are connected? Assuming of course that's the problem here, but my suspicion is rather that I'm not reading from all inlets before writing to the outlets. On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 12:14 PM <pd-dev-request(a)lists.iem.at> wrote: > Send Pd-dev mailing list submissions to > pd-dev(a)lists.iem.at > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pd-dev-request(a)lists.iem.at > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pd-dev-owner(a)lists.iem.at > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Pd-dev digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. inlets sending to wrong outlets (Eric Lennartson) > 2. Re: inlets sending to wrong outlets (Alexandre Torres Porres) > 3. Re: inlets sending to wrong outlets (Eric Lennartson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 11:59:54 -0700 > From: Eric Lennartson <lennartsoneric(a)gmail.com> > To: pd-dev <pd-dev(a)lists.iem.at> > Subject: [PD-dev] inlets sending to wrong outlets > Message-ID: > <CAGkKnE1H0Cnto7iFVLs= > YKm+h0Vj0ruVBxFwcDY7z+kZJaejxg(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hey all, > > I've been working with variable amounts of inlets and outlets and for the > most part it's been working fine. If it's only variable inlets and the > outlets are fixed, or vice versa, it works fine. However when both are > variable I can't seem to get the inlets to go to the correct outlet. My > current code is cycling through the inlets and outlets in pairs, but for > some reason this isn't working. Any thoughts? > > Thanks > Eric >

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Re: [PD-dev] [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.51-0test2 for Macontosh - another try at code signing
by Christof Ressi 30 May '20

30 May '20

From my limited experience with Catalina in the last few weeks, if you haven't made an exception in Security & Privacy *the very first time* you try to load it, you have to delete and reinstall the library. It's infuriating that you can't unblock it after the fact. Christof On 30.05.2020 18:35, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote: > This is deeply worrisome... it seems like your OS has somehow decided to > ban the externs themselves (irrespective of Pd). > > Is it feasible for you to either make or download an extern you haven't used > before and see if an older Pd can at least load that one? And anyway, are > these your own externs (that you compiled) that don't load, or downloaded > externs, or both? > > thanks > M > > > On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 12:24:36AM -0700, Kevin Haywood wrote: >> For me, on almost-latest macOS (10.15.4, although 10.15.5 just came out), test2 will not load externals at all. >> >> I get the "??? couldn???t create??? message in the Pd Window, but whereas previously I could quit Pd, go to System Preferences > Security & Privacy and there would be a little message telling me the last piece of software that was blocked (and allowing me to unblock it), that message no longer appears. >> >> To make matters worse, when I go back to 0.50-2, none of my externals will load there, either, now that I???ve run test2. >> >> Yikes! >> Kevin >> >> >>> On May 29, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Miller Puckette via Pd-announce <pd-announce(a)lists.iem.at> wrote: >>> >>> To Pd-announce: >>> >>> Pd 0.51-0test2 is up. It should fix the code signing problem in test1 ofr >>> Macintoshes. No difference from test1 on other OSes. >>> >>> http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm >>> >>> cheers >>> Miller >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-announce mailing list >>> Pd-announce(a)lists.iem.at >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announc… >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list__;… > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

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Re: [PD-dev] code sign issues, was: can't get sys_getpreference to work on MacOS
by Dan Wilcox 29 May '20

29 May '20

Howdy Miller, Can you elaborate on the following? I'd like to confirm the new macOS builds are signed & notarized so they will run on macOS 10.15+. I'm now a bit unsure due to Alex's latest email on pd-list. > On May 26, 2020, at 12:00 PM, pd-dev-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > (I'm also having trouble with "codesign", will describe that in a separate > mail). > > thanks > Miller -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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Re: [PD-dev] [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load externals? + Other annoyances.
by Dan Wilcox 29 May '20

29 May '20

If you can find a copy of an older Xcode DMG, then you can install it. The official downloads section on the Apple Developer site requires an account (basically an AppleID_. I believe you can make an account for free and only need to pay to distribute on the app store and run a build on a mobile device. Alex, you most likely already have an AppleID. If so, try this link: Downloads <https://developer.apple.com/download/>. Once logged in, click the small "More" link to the upper right. Then scroll down to find the latest Xcode 11.3 which I think is the last one supported by Mojave. We recently had to do this for my wife's work laptop as she had the same issue. If the login does not work, you need to open/associate your AppleID with a developer account. I don't remember anything about this as I did it so long ago now. Note: This is not a new issue and a little Google-fu would have turned up info like https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10335747/how-to-download-xcode-dmg-or-x… <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10335747/how-to-download-xcode-dmg-or-x…> > On May 29, 2020, at 7:09 PM, pd-dev-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 19:09:10 +0200 > From: Christof Ressi <info(a)christofressi.com <mailto:info@christofressi.com>> > To: pd-dev <pd-dev(a)lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-dev@lists.iem.at>> > Subject: Re: [PD-dev] [PD] Catalina makes Pd take too long to load > externals? + Other annoyances. > Message-ID: <388e5909-355e-34f8-97d3-2717b8f27568(a)christofressi.com <mailto:388e5909-355e-34f8-97d3-2717b8f27568@christofressi.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" > > I think you don't even need a developer account. I somehow remember that > I've manually installed Xcode on my OSX 10.11 machine (which I can't > upgrade to newer OSX versions because it's too old). But I might be wrong... > > On 29.05.2020 18:05, Dan Wilcox wrote: >> If you have an Apple Developer account, you can download old versions >> of Xcode back to 3.0 or so. You have to login to the developer site >> and find the Downloads section. >> >>> On May 29, 2020, at 6:02 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres >>> <porres(a)gmail.com <mailto:porres@gmail.com> <mailto:porres@gmail.com <mailto:porres@gmail.com>>> wrote: >>> >>> I need XCode to compile Pd and my externals, I was forced to upgrade >>> to Catalina... and I cried... >>> >>> I might find a way to get a torrent from pirate bay maybe that allows >>> me to install XCode in mojave? I dunno... >> >> -------- >> Dan Wilcox >> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>> >> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> <http://danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>> >> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/> <http://robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>> >> >> -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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