Pd-dev April 2004

pd-dev@lists.iem.at

29 participants
45 discussions

Pdplay?
by Nicola Bernardini 21 Oct '04

21 Oct '04

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dear all, at the SOb project (http://www.soundobject.org) we're writing some really cool physical model objects which we are soon going to package and propose to the pure-data externals repository (they are GNU/GPL). However, we now have a problem that we want to solve soon: we need standalone versions of some demo applications (possibly running griPD etc.) we did. It would be nice to have a sort of MaxPlay type of thing (how about PdPlay?). I have some ideas on how to do it and it could be trivial, and therefore it is very probable that someone has already done it somewhere. If no one has done it, I'll hack up one solution and report back to the list as soon as it is done (it is going to be GNU/GPL anyway :). Thank you in advance for all the help you will want to give. nicb +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Nicola Bernardini | |E-mail: nicb(a)centrotemporeale.it | |GPG Fingerprint = 6AE6 AF21 E160 D9B3 396E EBAC 906C CFAE 4D65 D910| |Neither MS-Word nor MS-PowerPoint attachments please: | |http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.75-6 iD8DBQE9mf2qkGzPrk1l2RARAqi/AJ92NXY9HoDWlMbRcu59RkUQNH8E7gCeLU07 +ocbGJWYRzzrrdQO/cG0BcM= =TT6i -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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a few questions
by Mathieu Bouchard 01 May '04

01 May '04

hi everybody, is there a reason why t_tkcmd.c exists, instead of merging that code into u_main.tk and then running the command "wish u_main.tk" ? is there a reason why the global pd_nt exists, instead of using the global tcl_platform() that is built into tcl? what does rtext mean? if it means "text responder", then, in turn, what does _that_ mean? ________________________________________________________________ Mathieu Bouchard http://artengine.ca/matju

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extending the .pd format
by Mathieu Bouchard 30 Apr '04

30 Apr '04

Hi, I would need some input on extending the .pd format. I would also like that some modifications get made to Pd to support extensibility. Here's the plan for now: 1. "#X connect" lines would take any number of extra arguments, which would have to be preserved by attaching an atom list to each connection and save that list when saving the connection. Ideally this would have to be put in all versions of Pd. Now, miller+devel branches may actually just ignore those extra arguments, and the impd branch would do something else with it. 2. all GUI objects should support additional arguments in pretty much the same way. 3. Alternately, (1) and (2) can be replaced by having a new #-code (like #E standing for extra) that applies to the last #X. This would be especially good for adding properties to GUI objects that already have a use for any number of arguments (messageboxes, objectboxes themselves, and comments). 4. In any case, I think it would be good to have those extras as key/value pairs, because 23 unnamed arguments (#X obj 0 0 vsl blah blah blah) is already a bit hard to follow sometimes, and it sounds silly to me to add more of those unnamed arguments, especially since in most cases, default values still would be used, just like they already are in the case of half of the 23 unnamed arguments right now. 5. There's a problem with the above idea (4) when it comes to counting a list as a value. One way to resolve this is to introduce sublists, which would be a good idea anyway, and use the {} characters (that are currently dropped, and so unused) for that purpose, just like how they are used in jMax2 and Tcl already (or parens in LISP, or [] in many others). 6. However I don't know how much code would have to be changed for (5) to be completed. If I didn't care about compatibility, I would introduce {}'s all over the place, but if I have to make it easier for other (miller+devel) branches, then i'd ask to only support them in #E's for now, and delay their other potential uses in the rest of Pd (inside normal "#X obj" arguments, etc), though using parens with spaces around them (in GF/Pd) still looks silly anytime. Ok, the above are my most important ideas, but below are some extra nonneglectible ideas that I'm less sure what to do about. 7. If doublequotes changed meaning to quoting symbols in pretty much C/Tcl/etc allow, it would be an incompatibility, but I suspect the end result of most of the affected patches would actually remain the same, just going through different semantics, such that "foo bar" would just be a 7-character symbol instead of two 3-character symbols. 8. However I would prefer doublequotes to mean _string literals_ instead, and maybe use some other character for symbol quoting: LISP uses [], but LISP isn't too familiar to most Pd users anyway. I might suggest backticks or singlequotes. String literals might be difficult to introduce neatly into Pd, because it would be great if they could be used (magically) instead of symbols whenever possible, and have automatic conversion, but I guess all the code checking for T_SYMBOL won't support it... ________________________________________________________________ Mathieu Bouchard http://artengine.ca/matju

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Treating .pd-files as binaryin CVS
by Frank Barknecht 28 Apr '04

28 Apr '04

Hallo, today I wanted to commit some rradical patch changes to CVS, when cvs bailed out with errors like: confused about file rrad.minipli.pd -- ignoring I vaguely remember, that Pd files maybe should be stored as binary in CVS. Reading a bit around about this I found, that it is possible to make *.pd files be always treated as binary by adding them to the "cvswrappers" file. So maybe some CVS guru can comment, if this would make sense? Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__

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a problem with flext and the .lib files
by Gabriel Boudard 28 Apr '04

28 Apr '04

hello I have a question about flext : I use visual C++ 6.0 and I download flext-0.4.6-pd-win.zip on http://www.parasitaere-kapazitaeten.net/ext/flext/ I try to compile a .cpp file like for example "simple1" that I found in the pdf "flext-intro.pdf" ( _http://www.parasitaere-kapazitaeten.net/ext/flext/flext-intro.pdf_ ) and there is no problem, but when I try to build this project as "simple.dll" I have message error of the type : "main.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol: flext_d-pdwin.lib" I know that in order to slove this problem I need to link my project with a file like "flext.lib" but I do not have a such file and I don't know where I can obtain it... I found some .lib files in "flext-0.4.0-win.zip" but it's the version 0.4.0 and it do not work ... <archive/flext-0.4.0-win.zip> Thank you for your help

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devel_0_37 on CVS broken and old?
by Frank Barknecht 26 Apr '04

26 Apr '04

Hallo, for me devel_0_37 currently fails to compile correctly. Using a fresh checkout (rm -f src/*) doing a configure && make results in a whole lot of errors like: x_acoustics.o(.text+0x1c7): In function `dbtorms': : undefined reference to `exp' x_acoustics.o(.text+0x4de): In function `mtof_float': : undefined reference to `exp' x_acoustics.o(.text+0x57c): In function `ftom_float': : undefined reference to `log' x_acoustics.o(.text+0x609): In function `rmstodb_float': : undefined reference to `log' x_acoustics.o(.text+0x6b9): In function `powtodb_float': : undefined reference to `log' x_acoustics.o(.text+0x78c): In function `dbtopow_float': : undefined reference to `exp' x_acoustics.o(.text+0x84c): In function `dbtorms_float': : undefined reference to `exp' collect2: ld returned 1 exit status make: *** [../bin/pd] Error 1 when doing the final linking of ../bin/pd This is because of a missing "-lm", which I can add to makefile, but where do I add this to makefile.in or the configure stuff and how comes it is suddenly missing? Also I really wonder again, how current devel_0_37 is, as it still shows the "exp shadowed" warnings in vexp.c, which are already fixed in MSP-pd-0.37-1 Could it be, that CVS seriously lags behind? I see in some directories, the newest imports are 2 months (Feb.) old, whereas the latest MSP-Pd was released on March 4 including several bug fixes IIRC. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__

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A Solution: abstraction and external name collisions
by B. Bogart 24 Apr '04

24 Apr '04

Hey all, I just had an idea suddenly inspired by Frank's RRADical announcement. There has been a lot of talk about naming collisions and such on the list (indeed I have also been a victim myself of such issues) having to do with abstractions and objects. I started by naming my abstractions by the project they belong to ie v_[name] and pt.[name] but I realized something that could make managing this stuff a lot easier (Though it could make object names much more verbose, and could cause a hell of a time with existing patches being broken) For example I have an Gem abstraction that does pix filtering called pt.layerfx.pd this abstraction is in one of the PDs paths. This abstraction depends on a number of other abstractions that are at a lower level. These abstractions are not meant for the person patching but only to make things easier for pt.layerfx. I have taken a few of the pix_ filters and wrapped them in abstractions to standardize their interface. They all have one inlet for the amount of the effect (from 0-1) and an inlet and outlet for the gem-chain. These lower-level abstractions are in a sub folder of the folder that contains pt.layerfx called fx. Since the sub folder "fx" is not in the PD path typing "rtx" (the name of one of these wrapper-abstractions) for example gives me no valid object. Though if I type fx/rtx I am actually calling the correct abstraction, even though that abstraction is not in the PD path. One could then organize their abstractions by the project and add only the folder of projects to the path rather than the individual project folders. This way you use a more verbose name to get at all the same abstractions without name collisions. A folder of cvs abstractions that may not be stable for example could be called as cvs/pt.layerfx and the stable version could be called simply as pt.layerfx. Could this method be applied to externals as well? markex/counter or mex/counter cxc/counter cyclone/counter or cyc/counter Of course you break all the old patches if you have to use new names, but it provides a facility where you use the object you want rather than the one with the same name as the object you want. Shorter project names, or project aliases could be used for shorter names pt.layerfx becomes pt/layerfx. Someone could always put the cyclone folder into the PD path and then "counter" would refer to cyclone, and if you want the markex version you type markex/counter. So there are issues with this method but I think it has potential. Obviously it could use development but I think the concept has some validity. In a way this is creating a seperate namspace for each set of abstractions/externals. They could also be multiple levels deep: cvs/markex/counter cvs/cyclone/counter markex/counter cyclone/counter Just throught I would throw it out there as fast as it popped into my brain. Any comments? Ben

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I don't get any messages.
by Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen 21 Apr '04

21 Apr '04

Since about 1.4 I haven't received any messages on any of the pd-lists. I thought I had been unsubscribed for some reason, but when I try to subscribe I get the message that I'm allready subscribed. I'm reading the lists in digested mode. Shall I try to unsubscribe and then subscribe again? (Please CC replies to my e-mail address. :) --

1 0

pd parser + creating inlets/outlets outside of new-method
by Tom Schouten 21 Apr '04

21 Apr '04

hi all, i'm writing a minimal forth for pd, and i ran into the following problems. maybe someone knows how to tackle them? 1. creating inlets/outlets on the fly (i.e. after an object is constructed) seems to work perfectly, except for them not being displayed in the gui. what should i do to 'refresh' ? 2. is pd's parser available through some api? i'd like to load a textfile and convert it's content to pd messages / lists inside an object's constructor. (right now i need an external [textfile] object to boot a forth object, by sending it code one line at a time, and obviously this is a problem when the object has inlets/outlets). groete tom

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cxc vs. cyclone [counter]
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 20 Apr '04

20 Apr '04

Currently, the [counter] object from cxc is included in the pd-externals distro. I think it should be renamed to [cxc.counter] like [cxc.prepend] and [cxc.split] so that the Max-style [counter] from cyclone will be the default. Does anyone have a problem with this? .hc ________________________________________________________________________ ____ Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli

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Pd-dev April 2004