Pd-dev November 2002

pd-dev@lists.iem.at

36 participants
46 discussions

how am I being created?
by Krzysztof Czaja 19 Nov '02

19 Nov '02

hi Miller, hi all, is there any way for a constructor ('new' function) of an external to know whether an object is 1. loaded from a file, or 2. created from menu (typed in, pasted/duplicated, etc.)? Krzysztof

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PD externals Debian packaging
by guenter geiger 19 Nov '02

19 Nov '02

Hi there, I have checked in a debian directory in the pd externals CVS which should make it possible to generate debian packages directly from CVS. currently there are generated: pd-externals: single externals, including ext13, ggee, and others pd-zexy: the zexy library pd-flext: flext library pd-osc: the OSC object I finally decided to not put everything into the build directory, because some things just do not fit, or have external and additional dependencies. Left to be done: (this addresses Frank mainly) in order to build the footils, it would be the best if I had some general makefile in the footils directory. I can do it, but I would be happier if you would do it. You can await that there is an already compiled flext library in grill/flext, and compile/link it against that. What else ? !! Last call for additional externals !! I am not sure if I will find the time to collect all the externals on the net and inject them, because I want to ask for permission of the authors first before doing that. So those who have externals lying around and want them to be included in the upcoming Demudi release, please drop me a note, join the sourceforge developers, or just send me a link to your externals together with the permission to use it. Ciao Guenter

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todays pd-blog...
by Ryan Gallagher 16 Nov '02

16 Nov '02

Some random stuff with osx and pd. BTW, if people haven't noticed, in the last week or so, Miller has done some amazing things to improve pd on osx! Tell em thanks. Here's some superficial and mostly aesthetic bugs I've found with the latest os x test; 1 Menus are sometimes buried by two pixels or so under the wish menu (previously addressed and improved upon). 2 Tearing off menu results in hidden title controls etc (see number one). 3 In edit mode, clicking a connection line results in selection rather than deletion. 4 Arrow keys don't work when editing message object contents. 5 "This window has been modified. Close anyway?" window has empty (invisible) "yes" button sometimes. 6 Resize window button does not resize window (hence unable to resize VERY large windows). 7 Portaudio doesn't play nice with multiple outs in my setup (anyone know anything about rtaudio as a possible option?). 8 Audio sometimes glitches, dunno why (chris clepper's looking into this). 9 Graphic redraws are mighty slow (like in example 11.wavetable.FM.pd when using the mouse to draw waveforms). 10 "RCNE SendEventToEventTarget (mous Moved) failed, -9874" appears in terminal a lot. (Is this even a problem?) Someone, please let me know what I can do to help with any of these. I suck at coding though. ;-) Wish list: 1 Replace the (apparently useless) Wish menu bar with the currently focused window's menu bar (ala jmax 4.0 & many other apps). 2 Mouse scroll-wheel input accepted in number objects etc. 3 Use command as keyboard modifier key rather than ctrl. 4 An ultra-resource cheap terminal/console option included with osx pd distro. 5 jMax and Pd to be completely interoperable, one big happy family. 6 A snickers bar and a glass of milk. thanks, ryan ===== -r- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com

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[PD-announce] Pd 0.36 test 6 compiled for Mac OSX
by Ryan Gallagher 15 Nov '02

15 Nov '02

Thanks Miller, Although I couldn't get it to compile (prolly my lack of skill) I was able to test the pre-built binary and sure enough, full duplex audio w/emi 2|6 and midi (though somewhat poor performance) with my midisport 2x2. Next adventure - multiple outs. Btw, the hidden menubar thing is improved (though somehow it still ends up half burried). Thank's again. -ryan ===== -r- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com

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OS X? Tcl? Pd?
by Ryan Gallagher 14 Nov '02

14 Nov '02

Howdy, An annoying issue seems to be presenting itself rather often in my experience. When opening large (I mean the windows are large) patches (and some random small ones), the tool bar is hidden behind the OS X toolbar. Thus I'm unable to close, resize or move the window. At other times a patch extends beyond the frame of my screen. I'm unable to reach the corners or resize the window. This often forces me to quit the app and prevents me from opening certain patches as the minimize/maximize buttons don't... OSX? Tcl? Pd? thanks, ryan ===== -r- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com

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arbitrary start position with tabwrite~
by Chris McCormick 13 Nov '02

13 Nov '02

Hi Miller, list, I've made the following tiny patch to tabwrite~ so i can begin recording to a table at an arbitrary sample position. instead of banging tabwrite~ you can send it 'start 123' and it will start recording at sample position 123. I need this because i want to make long audio recordings but i might not want to start recording the whole thing at the beginning. Regards, Chris. chr15m:~/software/installed/pd-0.35-0/src$ diff d_array.c d_array.c.old 96,100d95 < static void tabwrite_tilde_start(t_tabwrite_tilde *x, t_floatarg fstart) < { < x->x_phase = fstart; < } < 139,140d133 < class_addmethod(tabwrite_tilde_class, (t_method)tabwrite_tilde_start, < gensym("start"), A_FLOAT, 0); _________________________________ chris(a)mccormick.cx http://www.mccormick.cx http://www.sciencegirlrecords.com

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The ins and outs of ins and outs...
by Ryan Gallagher 13 Nov '02

13 Nov '02

Hi again... Well, you all read the latest CVS corrects my slow mouse input woes (bravo!). Now perhaps some kind soul could elucidate the method of specifying correct audio device numbers at startup. The current OS X info in the online manual (sec. 3.4) is somewhat outdated. Btw, I'd be happy to contribute documentation to help ease other novice OSX users getting started (once I'm rolling). I can only make noise with built-in audio! pd -listdev produces the following... start -> Number of devices = 4 ---------------------------------------------- #1 Name = Built-in audio controller Max Inputs = 2, Max Outputs = 0 Sample Rates = 44100.00, Native Sample Formats = paFloat32, ---------------------------------------------- #2 DefaultInput Name = Emagic EMI 2|6 Max Inputs = 2, Max Outputs = 0 Sample Rates = 44100.00, 48000.00, 96000.00, Native Sample Formats = paFloat32, ---------------------------------------------- #3 Name = Built-in audio controller Max Inputs = 0, Max Outputs = 2 Sample Rates = 44100.00, Native Sample Formats = paFloat32, ---------------------------------------------- #4 DefaultOutput Name = Emagic EMI 2|6 Max Inputs = 0, Max Outputs = 2 Sample Rates = 44100.00, 48000.00, 96000.00, Native Sample Formats = paFloat32, ---------------------------------------------- [MIDISportLike] count of items in device list is 1 [MIDISportLike] considering service whose index is 0 [MIDISportLike] considering service whose index is 1 [MIDISportLike] considering service whose index is 2 [MIDISportLike] considering service whose index is 3 [MIDISportLike] InterfaceStarter::Notify [MIDISportLike] count of items in device list is 1 [MIDISportLike] a MIDI device under consideration has offline 1 [MIDISportLike] a MIDI device under consideration has product ID 4098 [MIDISportLike] the MIDI device under consideration matched the product ID for which we were searching [MIDISportLike] we found a MIDI device in the configuration, so we will simply use it [MIDISportLike] searching for dead sport pair with index 1 [MIDISportLike] found no extant suitable pair and creating one 1 [MIDISportLike] searching for dead sport pair with index 0 [MIDISportLike] found no extant suitable pair and creating one 0 [MIDISportLike] considering service whose index is 4 0: CoreMIDI, Port B (input) 1: CoreMIDI, Port B (input) 2: CoreMIDI, Port B (output) 3: CoreMIDI, Port B (output) could not open midi output device number 1: Invalid device ID. using default input device number: 1 using default output device number: 3 nchan 2, flags 3, bufs 8, framesperbuf 256 PortAudio: input and output must use same CoreAudio device! Error number -9997 occured opening portaudio stream Error message: Invalid device ID. Bus error <- end While pd -audioindev 2 -audiooutdev 4 produces... start -> [MIDISportLike] count of items in device list is 1 [MIDISportLike] considering service whose index is 0 [MIDISportLike] considering service whose index is 1 [MIDISportLike] considering service whose index is 2 [MIDISportLike] considering service whose index is 3 [MIDISportLike] InterfaceStarter::Notify [MIDISportLike] count of items in device list is 1 [MIDISportLike] a MIDI device under consideration has offline 1 [MIDISportLike] a MIDI device under consideration has product ID 4098 [MIDISportLike] the MIDI device under consideration matched the product ID for which we were searching [MIDISportLike] we found a MIDI device in the configuration, so we will simply use it [MIDISportLike] searching for dead sport pair with index 1 [MIDISportLike] found no extant suitable pair and creating one 1 [MIDISportLike] searching for dead sport pair with index 0 [MIDISportLike] found no extant suitable pair and creating one 0 [MIDISportLike] considering service whose index is 4 could not open midi output device number 1: Invalid device ID. nchan 2, flags 3, bufs 8, framesperbuf 256 PortAudio: input and output must use same CoreAudio device! Error number -9997 occured opening portaudio stream Error message: Invalid device ID. Bus error <- end And no sound from my Emagic emi 2|6 audio interface (which works well with all other apps). Any thoughts? thanks, ===== -r- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2

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OSX Pd seems fixed
by Ryan Gallagher 12 Nov '02

12 Nov '02

Well, I'm very happy to announce... pd-0.36-test5 and Tcl/Tk 4.8.1 fixes slow mouse input with number boxes... thanks a ton all for the advice. Now to start learning and patching things together... later, ryan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2

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Re: [PD-dev] Pd on OS X
by Ryan Gallagher 12 Nov '02

12 Nov '02

Hmm... So it's a Tcl/Tk thing, or a getting Tcl/Tk to work well with Pd thing? Honestly at this point I'd rather use Pd (more active community, developed well and often, seems a bit more avant guard, etc.) but I'm really only interested in real-time tweaking... If there's a chance things could improve I'll pursue Pd but if that's just the way Tcl/Tk is on OS X I'll go with jMax also. Is Tcl slow on the linux platform? Early jMax and early Pd were both dog slow on my linux PII 200 last yearish... JMax has a nice interface (java anti-aliasing etc.) and it's actually being developed pretty intensly. 4.0.0 is looking good. thanks Adam, Miller et.al, -ryan --- Adam Lindsay <atl(a)comp.lancs.ac.uk> wrote: > Okay, if you're running such a recent Tcl/Tk, it's > not the bug I was > alluding to, and more like what Miller mentioned. > The current Tcl/Tk's > are hard to work with because the screen interrupts > can cause skips in > the sound buffers. > > It does run pretty well if you do *not* rely on live > updating numberboxes > and the like. You can always increase the buffer > size by one notch, too. > > I've just downloaded jMax, but I haven't had a > chance to test it. It sure > looks a lot prettier, though. Sigh. > > adam > > > I believe Ryan Gallagher said this around Mon, 11 > Nov 2002: > > >Hi, > > > >Thanks for that tip. > > > >I am using 8.4.1 just compiled last week. The > audio > >doesn't stall per se, it's more like values aren't > >getting updated consistantly so say a pitch sweep > will > >"jump" along with the numerical input. > > > >A friend told me Pd on osx runs better than jMax. > >This hasn't been my experience at all so I thought > I'd > >get some feedback from other pd osx users. > > > >thanks again, > >ryan > > > >--- Adam Lindsay <atl(a)comp.lancs.ac.uk> wrote: > >> If you're running Jaguar and are experiencing a > >> stalled graphical > >> interface, do make sure you're running the latest > >> (8.4.1) Tcl/Tk. The > >> most recent builds at Sourceforge are nice > looking > >> (antialiased text... > >> which may not help performance). Mac OSX 10.2 > >> introduced some issues with > >> older versions of Tcl/Tk which have subsequently > >> been fixed. > >> > >> > ><http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/tcl/TclTkAqua-8.4.1-Jaguar.dmg?download> > >> > >> Stalled audio input is another matter. I have an > >> iMac with similar specs, > >> and it's tricky to get good performance. > >> > >> Best of luck, > >> adam > >> > >> > >> I believe Ryan Gallagher said this around Mon, 11 > >> Nov 2002: > >> > >> >Hi there, > >> > > >> >I read that Pd is "(somewhat shakily) running on > >> >Macintosh OS/X" and decided to give er a try... > I > >> was > >> >wondering if one of the "shakes" is jumpy > >> unresponsive > >> >mouse input? When clickin on a number object > and > >> >moving the mouse up and down, there appears to > be > >> >certain freezing and skipping in the interface > >> (also > >> >observable in audio output). > >> > > >> >Is this the state of affairs or do I have > something > >> >mis-configured, I have a G3 400, 512mb ram, > >> OSX.2.1. > >> > > >> >thanks, > >> >ryan > >> > > >> > >__________________________________________________ > >> >Do you Yahoo!? > >> >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos > >> >http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > >> > > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >PD-dev mailing list > >> >PD-dev(a)iem.kug.ac.at > >> > >>http://iem.kug.ac.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-dev > >> > >> -- > >> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > >> Adam Lindsay +44(0)1524 594 537 > >> atl(a)comp.lancs.ac.uk > >> http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/computing/users/atl/ > >> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > >> > > > > > >===== > >-r- > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos > >http://launch.yahoo.com/u2 > > -- > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Adam Lindsay +44(0)1524 594 537 > atl(a)comp.lancs.ac.uk > http://www.comp.lancs.ac.uk/computing/users/atl/ > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > ===== -r- __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos http://launch.yahoo.com/u2

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microsleep and small fragments with ALSA
by vanDongen-Gilcher 12 Nov '02

12 Nov '02

Hi, I was experimenting with different fragment sizes and small buffers. With really small buffers of 64 frames/fragment and a buffer of 2 or 3 fragments (periods) PD didn't work. I started hacking in the internals and I have a couple questions. If I read the code corectly, there is in the main scheduler loop a "microsleep" of at least(?) 1 ms. Why? Removing it makes small buffers work. Since one block of 64 samples is about 1.45 ms, it also seems to waste 60% of available CPU power (worst case). . Also: The ALSA code is not quit correct. It sets the fragment-size and buffer- size with _set_near functions, but doesn't check the return, except for errors. So you can set these sizes to anything you want on the command line, and the pcm device will open with the nearest available size. PD however, will use your command line arguments to set the micosleep interval, and to preload the audio buffer with silence, and do some other things that I haven't tracked fully. This is not all bad, the preloading is done to the entire blocksize*nfragments buffer, so this determines the minimal latency when the pcm's are started. This way you can 'fake' an smaller buffer with cards that have a large fixed buffer size. Still you only _need_ to preload 1 or 2 fragments before starting, and it sometimes makes it seem that these command line settings have no or an opposite effect. And a final question: The ALSA code writes before reading. Wouldn't it be better the other way around? Shall I implement these changes in the ALSA code and send a patch? regards Gerard

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Pd-dev November 2002