GEM-dev December 2004

gem-dev@lists.iem.at

10 participants
13 discussions

pf/pdp/3dp in Gem
by Tom Schouten 11 Aug '06

11 Aug '06

hi gemmers, just talking with jamie here in bergen and it's pretty clear to me how to write the bridge between libpdp and Gem. practicly, for me it is the build system. i'd like to add 5 objects. 3 of them are already in the pf/pd bridge. * [gem.get <thing>] : forks off one gemstate object as pdp packet * [gem.set <thing>] : inserts one pdp object in gem state * [pdp <thing>] : generic pdp processors (functional maps) * [3dp <thing] : 3d drawing objects (draw to current gl context) * [pf <script>] : any pf script the last 3 i have C code for and they don't depend on gem, but if pf/pdp/3dp is running inside Gem they need to be included. the first 2 need to be written from scratch as gem objects, possibly just derived from GemBase. i suggest someone helps me with setting this up, by adding templates for the gem.get and gem.set objects in the source tree and add them to the build process. the names are of course open to discussion. anything sane and short. the rest i need is just an init callback. this callback will: * initialize the forth and pdp memory manager * create the pf/pdp/3dp pd objects maybe it is best to keep this optional, since it introduces a library dependency. so, who is motivated to help me out here by adding the templates? i don't have time to learn the build and init process. cheers tom

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Re: multiple_window: the questions begin!
by IOhannes m zmoelnig 16 Dec '05

16 Dec '05

james tittle wrote: > yallo, > > ...ok, checked it out and started compiling and stuff...immediately ran fine. > into a prob with the triggerMotionEvent(), which apparently takes four admittedly triggerMotionEvent (or rather: all of the hid-things like mouse, keyboard and probably tabled) does not really work yet in multiple_windows. we should discuss this (that is why i put this on gem-dev too): [gemmouse] outputs (as we all know) the mouse-position in the gem-window. now what happens if we have several gemwindows ? i think it there should be a mechanism to get the mouse-coordinates attached to the window the mouse appears in. this is not really possible with [gemmouse]. furthermore, [gemmouse] has several limitations (e.g.: no scroll-wheel support; what about mice with 10 buttons ?) now what should we do about it ? probably the simplest thing (as it is e.g. in pdp) would be to add an outlet to the various gem-windows that would emit the state of the mouse (or of any pointer). we could then build an abstraction (or do it in C) that sends this data to [gemmouse] which would act as a global receiver. as for outlets: personally i think by now(;-)) that it might be best to have just one outlet and prefix the outgoing messages, like [mouse <x> <y> <bt1> <bt2> <bt3>( this way we could always add another parameter to a certain message or just use a new message like [mouse_pos <x> <y>( [mouse_button 3 1( ok, the last 2 don't sound too convincing. anyhow, we need several messages to query things like the dimension of the window (or whatever): [dimen <x> <y>( > args: x, y, w, & h...why were the w & h added? I assume this is width > and height of the window that is being tracked? yes. the idea was to get away from absolute coordinates. i mean, you had to rewrite (well: adjust) your patch everytime you changed the window-dimensions (e.g. developping with a small window and performing with a big one) so i though normalized coordinates would be a cool thing (e.g. 0/0 is always upper left, 1/1 is lower/right) to make it compatible with older versions of [gemmouse] (else this would break every single patch that uses [gemmouse]) i decided to make this behaviour dependent on parameters. so you could give the maximum output range as arguments [gemmouse 1 1] would normalize x & y between 0..1 [gemmouse 10 20] would scale x between 0..10 and y between 0..20 ideally [gemmouse 1] would scale x&y between 0..1 on square windows and between 0..1 and 0..x/y (or the other way around ? thats the big question; i think i t would be better to fix the y-axis and scale x appropriately as this would make "moving objects with the mouse" much easier) on rectangle windows. mfg.as.dr IOhannes

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multiple_window: besides the mouse events...
by james tittle 28 Jan '05

28 Jan '05

...cool! found an easy fix for the triggerMouseEvent() width/height message output for a window... ...so, tonight I got the multiple_window branch to compile and run on OSX, but it's not running quite completely...so far it will create new windows (and apparently gl contexts) for each [gemwindow] object, and I have them hooked up to a [gemcontrol]. but only the last one created actually displays anything... ...have to admit that, beyond getting it to compile and all, I haven't really gone deeply thru the code to check out context sharing and such: is this working on xwindows atm? thanx, jamie

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another feature request.
by B. Bogart 23 Dec '04

23 Dec '04

Hey all, I'm also adding this to the Gem tracker. Its probably not possible, but I would really love a fast gaussian blur as a pix_ object. convolved blur does not have the image quality that would be really nice. Is there something that is similar in quality as gaussian blur but less intensive? This may be a good test-case for pixel shaders... B.

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gempixutils.cpp questions/confusion
by james tittle 20 Dec '04

20 Dec '04

heya, ...I think this is mostly directed to Iohannes... ...I was trying to use pix_colorreduce the other day and it didn't do anything: then I looked at the code and realized that on OSX, the YUV render loop is commented out and isn't doing anything...and, like the comment says, it crashed when uncommented...then I poked around and found out that imageStruct.fromUYVY() is just doing a memcpy(): it isn't recognizing that it needs to switch the colorspace to RGBA... ...so then I realized I don't really know how this auto-colorspace switching is supposed to work? In this example, the pix_film is naturally opened to yuv colorspace... ...now, having looked a bit more thru the comments, am I correct in understanding that the format is set from the incoming image? This is how it seems to be trying, and I don't think would ever work: it's just asking someone to make a copy of themself... ...getting more confusing: on creation, [pix_film] first sets m_pixBlock.image.setCsizeByFormat() to GL_BGRA_EXT...then it switches it to GL_YUV422_GEM; I guess this happens because pix_filmDarwin has m_colorspace = GL_YCBCR_422_GEM in it's creation? And then [pix_colorreduce] sets tempImage.setCsizeByFormat(GL_RGBA) on creation...? ...hmm, I guess I just need your explanation on how you think it's supposed to work :-) Seems to me that we'd have to tell it what space to switch to, and that it would be easier/more reliable to know what space it's switching from? ...or perhaps this is a huge hiccup from trying to have different default colorspaces on different platforms? ...also, imageStruct.fromYV12 should probably accept shorts instead of char's: pdp at least uses shorts for it's yv12... jamie ps: looking at the cvs commits, Iohannes first started working on this in may of 2003! Sorry it's taken me so long to see it as a problem ;-)

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nameclashes and so on (average)
by Tim Blechmann 20 Dec '04

20 Dec '04

hi gem-devs, hi olaf, hi rest ... since i need an average object, i'm again running into a lovely nameclash... olaf, gem-devs: do you see any chance to combine both of your objects? maybe extend the maxlib average with a |reset N(, a |clear( and a |bang( message ... and remove gem's average ... cheers ... tim -- mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de ICQ: 96771783 http://www.mokabar.tk After one look at this planet any visitor from outer space would say "I want to see the manager." William S. Burroughs

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Feature Requests (all together)
by B. Bogart 18 Dec '04

18 Dec '04

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * Support for loading video clips and still images with alpha channels intact! ~ (PNG loader for stills, no idea what video formats contain alpha channels?) ~ pix_mask is not so important per-se as long as one can actually use graphics ~ with alpha channels. I've only even used pix_mask for loading images with ~ custom-made masks. Mind you using the RGB channels of one video stream as the ~ alpha of another stream could be very interesting. The most obvious example ~ of this I can think of is using nice pre-rendered Gaussian blurred ~ drop-shadows that still work no matter what is behind them. * I've made a little test of using the gem-win as an interactive interface ~ surface. Each object calculates its own bounds, taking into consideration ~ position and scaling. Then I convert the pixel coords of the mouse to ~ gemcoords and each object tests if the mouse is on it and then acts ~ accordingly. I've got scale-up rollovers and drag and drop stuff working. ~ This is really ugly though, so I propose an object that returns the bounds ~ (in gem units) in 3D no matter what scaling and rotation objects may be ~ present to mess up the bounding-box. Bounding-box is the first step but ~ ideally I would like to be able to test if a certain coordinate overlaps some ~ part of an object in 3D space. Since a bounding-box does not actually ~ correspond to the surface of an object unless it is a rectangle that can only ~ be rotated by 90 degree increments. I would imagine that the more complex the ~ geo the harder to calculate if a point overlaps? This object could grow into ~ a number of comparison objects for collision detection, testing if objects ~ occlude one and other etc.. * Higher level operations for vertex arrays. It would be great to have ~ operations that effect each vertex differently, like "twist" would rotate the ~ vertices at the top of the model, and the lower the vertex is the less it ~ would be rotated. This maybe solved with some kind of smooth selection of ~ vertexes, where say vertex 1-100 is chosen, but the transformation is ~ strongest on vertex 1 and tapers off when you get to vertex 100. Also I would ~ really like to be able to specify a transformation that is treated by each ~ vertex locally as relative. For exable offset all vertices 0.5 units along ~ its normal to "expand" a model. It would be nice if you could select not just ~ a range but say every third vertex and translate that along its normal to ~ make a spiky shape. * Target a pix_texture (pbuffer) rather than a gem-window for rendering. ~ (Already in the works) That is all that is in my head thus far. I'll post this stuff to the gem feature tracker as well. Thanks, B. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBxHsAjbOsMZSA25cRAozhAKCJeETwD377lMb6U+06cJxu+EE+rQCfTuhk mill13MiZuEgfdcwPO/NaUc= =LR/t -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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gem & messaging
by Tim Blechmann 18 Dec '04

18 Dec '04

hi all ... i've got a problem with a simple gem patch that's related to the way gem handles pixes ... my patch looks like this: pix_video | t a a | | | |do a | do b but the |do a| part changes the state of the picture ... this for the dataflow: although i should have the same message to work on (coming from pix_video), i'm working on two different messages ... for my taste, this doesn't follow the dataflow language of pd any more, since two messages that should have the same behaviour, behave different... any idea, how to solve that? cheers ... tim -- mailto:TimBlechmann@gmx.de ICQ: 96771783 http://www.mokabar.tk After one look at this planet any visitor from outer space would say "I want to see the manager." William S. Burroughs

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Re: [GEM-dev] Re: multiple_window: the questions begin!
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 16 Dec '04

16 Dec '04

FYI: I just subscribed to this list and I am resending this email in case it didn't make it to the list the first time. On Dec 2, 2004, at 4:40 AM, Johannes M Zmoelnig wrote: > Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: >> coming from Gem too. Maybe the way to do it would be to have a >> [gemhid] object that outputs the same format as [hid]. > > (i do not know how to write "have you read all of the postings in this > thread?" without appearing to be offensive. i don't know whether you > are on gem-dev; so i ask the question without offense) No offence taken. I am not on gem-dev so I haven't read this thread, and I haven't really done much with Gem, so I am at a double disadvantage. > > i really think that the information provided by gem is per-window. > as i understand hid it is rather "global", in a sense that you do not > know where the information comes from. (well, it comes from "the > mouse" of course) > now the problem here is that we want multiple windows with distinct > grabbing of hid-events (if we want "global" events, i think one should > use [hid]). > [gemmouse] (and friends) does not support this, as there is no way to > specify the window it should listen too. > so most naturally (for me) it seems to take pdp's (and others') > approach to add an outlet to the [gemwindow] object that gives you > this kind of "feedback" from this window. > the output of this outlet should be standardized, and most probably > the "HID format" would be the best choice (as ben suggested), as it > seems to be easily extendible to new features of new hi-devices (e.g. > scroll-wheels,...) Sorry if this seems annoying, but I need to understand the whole problem before giving good advice. The idea behind the [hid] stuff is that you are getting sensor data from the devices, with as little filtering from the OS as possible. Correct me if I am wrong, but the basic goal with Gem seems to be to get pointer position data and clicks within that gemwin, so that's a different thing. That's getting information from the OS about the pointer interacting with the window. For example, something like keyboard data is not at all related to the pointer, so it doesn't matter whether you getting the events globally (i.e. from [hid]) or locally (i.e. from [gemkeyboard]). The only difference is whether the gemwin has focus or not. But if you can get the focus state from the gemwin, then you could use [hid] to get keyboard events for that specific window. I think this would be more flexible. The same goes for any element of a HID that is not directly represented in the gemwin (axes other than X,Y, mouse wheels, throttles, tablet pen tilt, etc. etc.). So it seems that Gem should only handle the window interaction data (pointer coords, button clicks in that window), and output when gemwin has focus (maybe it does this already?). The rest can be handled with standard Pd objects (i.e. [hid], or whatever). This idea is a bit raw since I am mired in writing my thesis paper, but I think this direction would ultimately be the right approach. Less duplicated code, fewer different objects to learn, more flexible, etc. >> What I haven't understood about the Gem HID objects (gemmouse, >> gemtablet, etc) is why they need to be distinct objects from the >> standard Pd HID objects. > > sorry i do not understand this. > if you complain about Gem's HID objects being unnecessary, you should > have written your [hid] some > years earlier (before april 1998; i am not sure whether HID was such > a buzzword back then)... I had zero intention of complaining, I was just under the impression that y'all wanted to keep the gem HID objects distinct, and I wanted to understand why. That's it. I have only used Gem a little, and I haven't looked at the code at all, so in order for me to be helpful here, I need to understand what all is going on. .hc > why we have several objects [gemmouse], [gemtablet], [gemkeyboard] i > cannot really tell you. but it seemed a bad idea to output > keyboard-information to [gemmouse]... > > >> The only reason I can see is to have absolute coordinates that match >> up the the gemwin. > > these coordinates are relative to the position of the gem-window (not > absolute with respect to the desktop-origin). ________________________________________________________________________ ____ There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste

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[OT] creation of .obj on blender
by cyrille henry 13 Dec '04

13 Dec '04

hello, i'm triing to use gem vertex array stuff. to be able to draw my own model is important, so I install blender. i did not find a way to export blender shape on a .obj file. can anyone help me? or should I use an other software than blender? thanks Cyrille

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GEM-dev December 2004